Live data from Hacker News

Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

apple.com

21–30 of 180 posts

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's going to be tax revenue coming from those jobs even if there are less or no taxes to the business itself, before you even consider the money that those employees and potentially even the business itself will spend within the community. I don't think it's as simple as tax incentives inherently being a cost for the community.

You're being downvoted, but nobody is engaging with the sensible points that you're making. While viewing these in the lens of a corporate handout, it is definitely a practice that deserves a close look, pretending that entire state governmental bodies in the US are acting outside of their own best interest (both fiscally and politically) deserves a conversation

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/16/18098479/amazon-tax-breaks

> A normal way for governments to raise revenue in the United States is with property taxes. If you build a gigantic new office tower somewhere, then you are going to owe a lot of property taxes to the local government.

> So if you’re smart and have good lobbyists, you’ll say, “Hey, we were thinking of building a huge office tower in your city, but your taxes are so high. Maybe instead of paying the 8 percent property tax rate that’s on the books, we could pay 2 percent instead for the first 20 years.”

> The city may well agree to this proposal because 2 percent of a giant office tower is still a lot more than 8 percent of a parking lot. What’s more, bringing your office tower to town is going to generate a lot of sales tax and income tax revenue while probably helping to bolster property values across the board. So while reporters are going to write, accurately, that your company got millions of dollars in tax breaks in order to build your office tower, the city still ends up with more tax revenue than it would have had if you hadn’t come to town.

> So you can’t really say things like, “Instead of handing out millions in subsidies to Jeff Bezos, we should invest in the subway.” The subway doesn’t need a tax break; the subway needs actual money. And the tax breaks don’t represent money in hand that could be spent.

> What we want is a healthy form of competition where companies try to locate in cities that provide a high quality of public services relative to their tax revenue, so that cities have an incentive to try to govern themselves well. The current dynamic not only allocates too much surplus to rich companies, it undermines that healthy form of competition. Amazon doesn’t need to care whether New York City has cost-effective government or not; it just opts out of paying the costs.

> But the very fact that mayors are inclined to hand out these subsidies should teach them a lesson about tax policy.

(The lesson being that, if giving these tax breaks out is beneficial, maybe you should have been taxing something else in the first place.)

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#22
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. People can be generally pro-development and also oppose development that just consists of sticking tall apartment buildings here and there while leaving public transit, auto infrastructure, and other public works as an exercise for the indefinite future.

This doesn't make much sense. Transit follows population. You wouldn't build transit before there was a need for it.

In fact, population has historically often grown up around rail and transit lines. It's one argument for light rail vs. buses; people buying and developing along along a line are far less exposed to the transit moving than in the case of a bus.

So, no. It's normally not a great idea to build a bunch of random housing and hope a total transportation mess--which already describes much of the Bay Area--will hopefully be solved someday.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#23
The chart showing the number of employees per state is comically misleading. They have tens of thousands of employees in Cupertino, but make the largest bucket represent "1000+" to make it appear employees are more evenly distributed across the country.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#25
post #20
post #8

Big corps love to brag about "adding jobs", but don't like to brag about the "tax incentives" they are getting. There are usually huge costs for the whole community. Austin tax incentives for Apple seem to be relatively small [1], but Foxconn factory in Wisconsin is an extreme case. I highly recommend the Replay All podcast episode on this [2][3] [1] https://www.statesman.com/news/20120901/austin-council-oks-8... [2]…

VIPs don’t have to pay to get in to nightclubs. Do you think that’s a huge cost? If so, why would club owners agree to it?

Not a very good example. VIPs don’t increase the cost for other punters.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#26
post #8

Big corps love to brag about "adding jobs", but don't like to brag about the "tax incentives" they are getting. There are usually huge costs for the whole community. Austin tax incentives for Apple seem to be relatively small [1], but Foxconn factory in Wisconsin is an extreme case. I highly recommend the Replay All podcast episode on this [2][3] [1] https://www.statesman.com/news/20120901/austin-council-oks-8... [2]…

it's weird to frame net new revenue as a "huge cost the whole community"

Taking less money from someone who is building a business in your area is not a cost. They have a choice on where to build, and tax burden is one of many factors in that choice.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#27
post #15
post #8

Big corps love to brag about "adding jobs", but don't like to brag about the "tax incentives" they are getting. There are usually huge costs for the whole community. Austin tax incentives for Apple seem to be relatively small [1], but Foxconn factory in Wisconsin is an extreme case. I highly recommend the Replay All podcast episode on this [2][3] [1] https://www.statesman.com/news/20120901/austin-council-oks-8... [2]…

Well, there's going to be tax revenue coming from those jobs even if there are less or no taxes to the business itself, before you even consider the money that those employees and potentially even the business itself will spend within the community. I don't think it's as simple as tax incentives inherently being a cost for the community.

If we presume that taxes are set to the level required to provide agreed-upon levels of service (roads, safety, schools, etc) and a new company gets to pay less taxes per capita, what happens now as the citywide average tax income per head starts to decline due to sweetheart tax breaks?

Additional tax income needs to cover the additional demand for services, otherwise it's a net loss for the community's standard of living.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#28
post #8

Big corps love to brag about "adding jobs", but don't like to brag about the "tax incentives" they are getting. There are usually huge costs for the whole community. Austin tax incentives for Apple seem to be relatively small [1], but Foxconn factory in Wisconsin is an extreme case. I highly recommend the Replay All podcast episode on this [2][3] [1] https://www.statesman.com/news/20120901/austin-council-oks-8... [2]…

it's weird to frame net new revenue as a "huge cost the whole community" Taking less money from someone who is building a business in your area is not a cost. They have a choice on where to build, and tax burden is one of many factors in that choice.

If they are adding people to your community- what roads will these new people be driving on? What schools will their children be attending?

The additional revenue is not being added in a vacuum.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#29
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's going to be tax revenue coming from those jobs even if there are less or no taxes to the business itself, before you even consider the money that those employees and potentially even the business itself will spend within the community. I don't think it's as simple as tax incentives inherently being a cost for the community.

You're being downvoted, but nobody is engaging with the sensible points that you're making. While viewing these in the lens of a corporate handout, it is definitely a practice that deserves a close look, pretending that entire state governmental bodies in the US are acting outside of their own best interest (both fiscally and politically) deserves a conversation

Like people, states might decide to form a union to increase prosperity for their citizens by bargaining with corporations as a collective. It makes it more difficult for adversaries to overpower individual states in a union. This could consist of an obligation to uphold revenue (taxes) which is used to provide certain living standards (e.g. medical expenses, feeding grandma, etc...) through a social guarantee.

How does corporate bargaining power work? Suppose two states and one corporation operating in both states. The corporation says to each state, "I'm reducing the employee count in your state unless you reduce my taxes." The threat is credible and is in neither state's interest. Unless the two states talk to each other and both agree to not reduce the tax rate, a social guarantee is in jeopardy. A union or cooperation of the states disallows the corporation the ability to punish and reward individual states, reducing the means to manipulate each individual state's tax rate to the corporations liking.

Re: Apple to build campus in Austin and sites in Seattle, San Diego and Culver City

#30
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's weird to frame net new revenue as a "huge cost the whole community" Taking less money from someone who is building a business in your area is not a cost. They have a choice on where to build, and tax burden is one of many factors in that choice.

If they are adding people to your community- what roads will these new people be driving on? What schools will their children be attending? The additional revenue is not being added in a vacuum.

The new people will be paying sales taxes, property taxes and state income taxes.
Post reply on HN