How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#21

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:56 AM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #14

jsiepkes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the hack had a really low entry barrier. As in; no hardware modifications needed. You could just download an ISO from the net and you were good to go with your unmodified Dreamcast. In contrast the other consoles in that era Xbox, PlayStation, etc. all needed hardware modifications in order to run copied content.

But, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO? Thinking back to when the dreamcast was a big console - I don't feel like it was common enough to really make a dent in dreamcast owners? Also, and again only from vague memory, wasn't the dreamcast itself underselling drastically. If it was game sales that broke the manufacturer then mayb…

I remember a friend of mine giving me a big binder full of burned Dreamcast games after his console died and he moved on to a PS2. He certainly wasn't the technical type, I think his Dad "bought them from a bloke down the pub", so to speak.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#22

Post by Dobbs » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 11:57 AM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #14

jsiepkes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the hack had a really low entry barrier. As in; no hardware modifications needed. You could just download an ISO from the net and you were good to go with your unmodified Dreamcast. In contrast the other consoles in that era Xbox, PlayStation, etc. all needed hardware modifications in order to run copied content.

But, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO? Thinking back to when the dreamcast was a big console - I don't feel like it was common enough to really make a dent in dreamcast owners? Also, and again only from vague memory, wasn't the dreamcast itself underselling drastically. If it was game sales that broke the manufacturer then mayb…

You could also rent a game from Blockbuster, and clone it. I know folks who did this. I don’t really know if more was involved as it was a bit before my time.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#23

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:01 PM UTC

new299 wrote: post #20

There are two points to note. The first is piracy probably didn’t lead to the failure of the Dreamcast. They didn’t sell many of the consoles... if it was a piracy issue then you’d expect they’d sell many consoles, but few games (the line up of games was really good). The article mentions Ikaruga a lot. It worth noting that Ikaruga for the Dreamcast was released a year after the Dreamcast was cancelled. They probably…

In the UK at least it was more than likely due to Sony's far superior marketing of the original PlayStation. The arrival of the PS2 and the Xbox sealed the deal.

That said, I've always seen the original Xbox as the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#24

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:04 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #8

The fact this was broken by stealing a developer's SDK is disappointing. Real hackers would have disassembled the machine to reverse engineer it, rather than using black market/social engineering tricks.

In that case, I think you'd be genuinely surprised to discover just how many things have been hacked in this way over the years.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#25

Post by alxlaz » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:10 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #14

jsiepkes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the hack had a really low entry barrier. As in; no hardware modifications needed. You could just download an ISO from the net and you were good to go with your unmodified Dreamcast. In contrast the other consoles in that era Xbox, PlayStation, etc. all needed hardware modifications in order to run copied content.

But, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO? Thinking back to when the dreamcast was a big console - I don't feel like it was common enough to really make a dent in dreamcast owners? Also, and again only from vague memory, wasn't the dreamcast itself underselling drastically. If it was game sales that broke the manufacturer then mayb…

> how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO?

One active netizen with a CD writer was enough for an entire school :-).

I don't know what impact this had over sales. Back then (~2001, 2002) I knew people who bought a Dreamcast precisely because they could get cheap games.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#26

Post by dana321 » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:13 PM UTC

dsco wrote: post #6

Related and _very_ inspiring; how the Sega Saturn CD was cracked after 20 years. Even my very non-technical girlfriend sat through this thing, being intrigued by the dedication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E

I love this video, i've watched it more than once!

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#27

Post by IronBacon » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

jsiepkes wrote: post #10

londons_explore wrote: post #9

Did the breaking of the copy protection on the Dreamcast really play a big part in Sega's downfall? If so, it would be one of the only cases I know of where IP piracy led to financial ruin of the content creator.

Well the hack had a really low entry barrier. As in; no hardware modifications needed. You could just download an ISO from the net and you were good to go with your unmodified Dreamcast. In contrast the other consoles in that era Xbox, PlayStation, etc. all needed hardware modifications in order to run copied content.

Well, for PS2 a soft mod became possible after Mr. Brow's "Independence" exploit around 2003.

Sidestepping the "Mechacon" (the DVD driver chip) happened a few years later, modifying ISO to mimic a "video" DVD and using a "loader" resident in RAM...

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#28

Post by Keyframe » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:25 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #9

Did the breaking of the copy protection on the Dreamcast really play a big part in Sega's downfall? If so, it would be one of the only cases I know of where IP piracy led to financial ruin of the content creator.

One could argue that (easy) piracy resulted in original Playstation's success.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#29

Post by dec0dedab0de » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:30 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #9

Did the breaking of the copy protection on the Dreamcast really play a big part in Sega's downfall? If so, it would be one of the only cases I know of where IP piracy led to financial ruin of the content creator.

I think that's the story being told, but I think the real problem is that the Saturn sucked, and the 32x, and the sega cd. Sega killed so much of their good will, that they barely had any customers left to pirate games. I only know one person who had a dreamcast, and they mostly had legit games with a few pirated ones. On the other hand I knew atleast 10 people with modded playstations, and mostly pirated games. I only buy Nintendo consoles, so I remember being jealous of their ability to pirate. Though I just remembered the kid who was doing the mods having a zip disk adapter for his N64.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#30

Post by wolfgke » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 12:33 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #23

new299 wrote: post #20

There are two points to note. The first is piracy probably didn’t lead to the failure of the Dreamcast. They didn’t sell many of the consoles... if it was a piracy issue then you’d expect they’d sell many consoles, but few games (the line up of games was really good). The article mentions Ikaruga a lot. It worth noting that Ikaruga for the Dreamcast was released a year after the Dreamcast was cancelled. They probably…

In the UK at least it was more than likely due to Sony's far superior marketing of the original PlayStation. The arrival of the PS2 and the Xbox sealed the deal. That said, I've always seen the original Xbox as the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

> That said, I've always seen the original Xbox as the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

In what sense? The architecture between these two consoles is IMHO quite different.