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Facial recognition: It’s time for action

blogs.microsoft.com

21–30 of 281 posts

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#21

This is the first instance I've seen of the tech industry calling for regulation. I admire this and the idea that people running a corporation can understand that despite their best intentions, in the long run the corporation will act to maximize profit via legal means, even if an action is not in the best interest of society. And so in some cases we need to make certain things illegal. I would love to see a company…

There's always the call for regulation - if a competitor has a product which is ahead if you in some way wher you for whatever reason can't or won't compete. See for instance Steve Cook's recent comments about GDPR and privacy.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#22

Too late for China.

These concerns also apply to China at least to a certain degree (or to a lesser degree from a Western centric perspective) and different emphasis. The point is: whatever being asked for here is to advance a technology for the greater good of the society, and that's government's responsibility. It has little to do with China or geopolitical tensions. At the end of day, everyone nation needs to choose the right path fo…

Kind of squirrely phrasing going on here. "If they believe some other nations are threatening their own ideology, the should build defense or sometimes offenses to counter that."

They "believe" their ideology is threatened--so it's okay to clamp down on their own citizens, representing over a billion human beings, censor and intercept all communications, edit out government atrocities and historical facts like Tienanmen square, and spy on every citizen on a profound and constant panopticon level? This isn't about western or eastern perspective. This kind of philosophy justifies the actions of any dictator or autocratic fascist. This whole obsession with a perceived national threat is the prod that pushes through all sorts of oppressive policies.

We in the west also have severe problems with this. The whole post-9/11 mentality has been all about yielding personal dignity and rights and basic privacy for the sake of assuaging some vague (and mostly imaginary) threat. We also are building a massive panopticon, we just aren't as far along as China is at the moment, and our machinations of totalitarianism are privatized instead of powered by the state. We should pay very close attention to what's going on in that culture, because we may need those lessons sooner than we think in our own future--even if they come in a slightly different form.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#23
The TLDR, MSFT says "You can't trust any of us so you better regulate us now."

... or they are just mad that I refuse to give them a linkedin photo. :) Supposed to be funny, but also serious. Every time they ask for one, and then ask why not, I tell them because they are fundamentally untrustworthy. And they are untrustworthy, as is every public for profit business whose officers carry a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.

IMO this position is well written and these two sentences succinctly articulate the situation:

"In particular, we don’t believe that the world will be best served by a commercial race to the bottom, with tech companies forced to choose between social responsibility and market success. We believe that the only way to protect against this race to the bottom is to build a floor of responsibility that supports healthy market competition."

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#24
post #5

This is where the ACLU should spend their time and effort rather than their political meanderings. This is politically neutral, it affects everyone and Americans should enjoy some basic rights in this realm. Govern how private entities use this tech and data. Regulate official use so it’s not abused, etc.

Political neutral doesn't exist. Regulation invades freedom of corporations. I support that, but I'm also left of the center. (For some definition of left and some definition of center)

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#26
Biometrics are creeping into everyday life. One of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access. Another local gym uses facial recognition for entrance, although you can choose to have a member card instead if you ask for it directly, they don't list it as an option.

Thankfully in the EU we have GDPR. It considers biometrics as a similar sensitivity to medical data, so unless you genuinely need it (maybe a hospital) then you can only get it with explicit consent. If consent is not given then that can not bar you from service.

So I reported a company to the ICO this week for the introduction of fingerprint scanners and was assured they consider it was a breach and will deal with them. GDPR isn't perfect and I think defaulting to consent is wrong and alternatives must be called out but you can't help people sleeping walking into it, it is very convenient.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#27

Governments are the first in the line to abuse facial recognition. Now as CCTV cams are everywhere, everybody should have a right to wear a mask everywhere without getting discriminated.

And more and more passing laws the expressly prevent you from concealment of your identity in a crowd.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#28
Wow. What a load of bullshit. They take every consumer level fear and exaggerate it to a ridiculous extent. "Problems that need to be addressed" is simply hand waving a fear flag. Likewise, in "Addressing bias and discrimination": if an implementation violates discrimination laws, it's use is already illegal. Additionally, "error rates" are expected: the whole idea is to "help identify", not be the absolute authority on identity. The technology is not designed for that. The "demand" for transparency and testing is already being supplied - the customers require such information, because they need to know to securely use the systems.

This article is so full of bullshit, it could only be written by a master manipulator. In "Protecting democratic freedoms and human rights" the prose is pointing out some practical issues, but glorifying them to fantasy fear levels.

Facial recognition is not an authoritative technology, never was, never will be. 90% of this article falls apart when it is pointed out that FR does not have authentication integrity, and anyone expecting such or trying to regulate it as such is talking nonsense.

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#29

The TLDR, MSFT says "You can't trust any of us so you better regulate us now." ... or they are just mad that I refuse to give them a linkedin photo. :) Supposed to be funny, but also serious. Every time they ask for one, and then ask why not, I tell them because they are fundamentally untrustworthy. And they are untrustworthy, as is every public for profit business whose officers carry a fiduciary responsibility to s…

This is MSFT saying "we can't compete here, and can't apparently buy the leaders, so we must legislate because We MSFT is not in control."

Re: Facial recognition: It’s time for action

#30

Biometrics are creeping into everyday life. One of my local gyms this week switched to requiring fingerprints or you were barred from access. Another local gym uses facial recognition for entrance, although you can choose to have a member card instead if you ask for it directly, they don't list it as an option. Thankfully in the EU we have GDPR. It considers biometrics as a similar sensitivity to medical data, so unl…

> If consent is not given then that can not bar you from service.

But they probably can increase the price to cover "administrative costs/..."

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