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Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

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Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#21

Post by clay_the_ripper »

benwerd wrote: post #12

This is how I know I would suck in a company like this. Yeah, it's Steve Jobs - but I find the level of reverence on show in this piece to be a little hard to take. It's certainly revealing of the culture there at the time. > And when you can get the time for thoughtful reflection on your idea from a visionary like Steve — well, that’s a good day. Being humble is one thing, but forcing yourself into this kind of fawn…

I interpret his tone as one of respect. From everything I have heard and read about the man, he was worthy of respect. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to respect the opinion of people you work for, and to feel proud when they like your ideas.

I think it’s a mistake to think that everyone in a company is on the same playing field, that everyone is equal (not on a human level, but a company level). Companies have leaders, and leaders are in charge. You either accept that and work for them, or you start your own company and you become the leader.

When you accept a job working for someone else, you also accept that you are not in charge.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#22

Post by derefr »

gonehome wrote: post #19
qntty wrote: post #11

Anyone else annoyed by how deferential the author seems to be towards Jobs? Like surely after knowing him for a bit you'd get over that.

I've seen this kind of strange behavior elsewhere with less famous people who are in charge of companies. People who don't regularly interact with them seem to act strange around them (which isn't that surprising if they're not seen that often and they're in charge), but the weirder thing to me is that all the supporting staff around the leader also acts strangely and seems to make it worse. It reminds me of the stor…

> When Jobs heard it was Carmack he said it was fine.

That seems less like the kind of "aura of reverence" you're talking about, and more like a respect for another creative person who makes carefully-considered choices (and perhaps a knowledge that most people in the audience for the demo know the artist and also respect them.)

Even if you don't agree with someone's tastes, if those tastes are a coherent part of a polished work, and you value the work itself, then you'll tend to let your aesthetic disagreement slide.

For a different concrete example: when the average movie director puts a weird sex thing in their movie, it sticks out in a way that makes you wonder whether they have a fetish and wanted to indulge it—and that breaks the verisimilitude of the work, lessening its impact. If, on the other hand, a director like David Lynch puts a weird sex thing in their movie, it's usually a critical element that fits the tone of the work, and doesn't break verisimilitude at all. It doesn't really matter whether David Lynch likes a given weird sex thing; it would still be a part of the work even if he didn't, because it belongs there.

Blood belongs in Carmack's games, in a way that means you'll tend to appreciate the bloodiness for its contribution to the overall tone of the game, even if you don't like blood.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#24

Post by misiti3780 »

im glad steve jobs did what he did, because i love my apple products as much as the next person, but everytime i read something like i realize there is no way i would have wanted to work for him even if i was "changing the world". life is simply too short.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#25

Post by jimbokun »

benwerd wrote: post #12

This is how I know I would suck in a company like this. Yeah, it's Steve Jobs - but I find the level of reverence on show in this piece to be a little hard to take. It's certainly revealing of the culture there at the time. > And when you can get the time for thoughtful reflection on your idea from a visionary like Steve — well, that’s a good day. Being humble is one thing, but forcing yourself into this kind of fawn…

"Being humble is one thing, but forcing yourself into this kind of fawning emotional servility feels dangerous to me."

Ironically, this attitude may have made you a good candidate to work at Apple.

There are many anecdotes about Steve being blunt with people, in an attempt to figure out who will be honest with him and who is just trying to kiss his ass. He wanted to work with the former, of course. And this is hinted at a little bit in the article.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#26

Post by bryanrasmussen »

maxxxxx wrote: post #20
r00fus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever meet Jobs? Maybe he was just really really good. He comes off that way in most of his interviews/keynotes. Good, laser-focused, demanding.

I think he was very good. But from whatever I have read he was also a big jerk and could be very cruel to people.

there are also cruel jerks who are incompetent idiots.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#27

Post by jimbokun »

s3r3nity wrote: post #17

> I don’t want those few and fleeting memories fractured and confused by other people’s interpretations. So you want to maintain dogmatic ideological views without subjecting yourself to an uncomfortable re-examining of how rose-tinted your glasses might have been? I was immediately turned off by this, and had a hard time finishing the post after reading that. Sometimes admitting that your idols are flawed human bein…

He wanted to keep his first hand memories intact, and not be distracted by a dramatized or fictionalized account.

Why do you need the interpretation of people who weren't there, of events you have directly experienced yourself?

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#28

Post by philwelch »

s3r3nity wrote: post #17

> I don’t want those few and fleeting memories fractured and confused by other people’s interpretations. So you want to maintain dogmatic ideological views without subjecting yourself to an uncomfortable re-examining of how rose-tinted your glasses might have been? I was immediately turned off by this, and had a hard time finishing the post after reading that. Sometimes admitting that your idols are flawed human bein…

I think that’s a little harsh. The human mind is very good at mixing things up and connecting them together in unexpected ways. I think the author is being genuinely more protective of his own memories than he is of Steve or even his opinion of Steve.

Re: Stories of Steve Jobs in Safari Design Reviews (2014)

#30

Post by sjwright »

qntty wrote: post #11

Anyone else annoyed by how deferential the author seems to be towards Jobs? Like surely after knowing him for a bit you'd get over that.

It would only annoy me if the author was being untruthful or disingenuous. Unless you have reason to suspect otherwise, I'll assume the author's personal recollection of his experiences as sincere.

Or to be more blunt, he knew Steve personally and you didn't. Just because you have never met someone who garnered that kind of reaction from you doesn't mean such people don't exist.

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