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Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

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Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#21

Post by Waterluvian »

cabalamat wrote: post #7

While Tumblr have every right to have whatever terms of service they like, this feels like a bait-and-switch to me. People and communities have become accustomed to allowing NSFW stuff on Tumblr, and if Tumblr had forbidden this from the get go these people who have set up somewhere else and not on Tumblr. What we need[1] is for social networks to be interoperable, with open data and protocols, so that a user can up…

I think you're pretty much describing Solid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_(web_decentralization_pr...

Though I could be wrong. I never fully grokked Solid last time I read about it.

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#22

Post by cabalamat »

Waterluvian wrote: post #21
cabalamat wrote: post #7

While Tumblr have every right to have whatever terms of service they like, this feels like a bait-and-switch to me. People and communities have become accustomed to allowing NSFW stuff on Tumblr, and if Tumblr had forbidden this from the get go these people who have set up somewhere else and not on Tumblr. What we need[1] is for social networks to be interoperable, with open data and protocols, so that a user can up…

I think you're pretty much describing Solid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_(web_decentralization_pr... Though I could be wrong. I never fully grokked Solid last time I read about it.

That and Mastodon, ActivityPub and IPFS are examples of the sort of thing I have in mind.

Also the decentralised flood-fill model of Usenet.

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#23

Post by int_19h »

benmmurphy wrote: post #10

I'm not sure how this proves the algorithm is doing a poor job. Any NSFW classifier is going to have a non-trivial error rate. Tumblr hosts LOTS of images. So if you have a non-trivial error rate and multiply it by LOTS of images you are going to get LOTS of images being misclassified incorrectly. It's not surprising someone was able to write a story about a bunch of images being misclassified. This doesn't seem to t…

In this case, the ultimate arbiters are the users of the service. Judging by their feedback so far, it is doing a poor job (and it doesn't matter if it's state of the art etc - that just means that our state of the art algorithms are that bad).

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#24

Post by int_19h »

ryanlol wrote: post #16
DavidVoid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that they are since searches for some "adult" terms are now censored but searches for nazi terms are not. For example: https://www.tumblr.com/search/breast/recent https://www.tumblr.com/search/nsfw/recent vs. https://www.tumblr.com/search/1488/recent https://www.tumblr.com/search/heil+hitler/recent https://www.tumblr.com/search/sieg+heil/recent edit: Image of other examples in case you don't want to actuall…

Tumblr also allows me to search for raygold and PTHC does that mean they approve of child pornography now? I don't believe that the fact that they've restricted a pretty small set of porn-related keywords suggests that furniture is more likely to be caught by tumblrs filters than nazi content, which is the claim the article appears to make.

I think the point is to highlight the "sex is worse than Nazis" logic behind this prioritization.

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#26

Post by TeMPOraL »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #14
furicane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't label the algorithm as anti-porn. I'd label it "how to lose user base and drive the company to a hole" algorithm. It's not likely that it detects actual porn, it's basically failing miserably and the result is abandonment. That's what you get when you want to be PC and yet another "me too, I do cool stuff too" company. There are lessons to be learned here, and for that - thank you Tumblr :)

> That's what you get when you want to be PC I don't understand this statement. Tumblr's user base, at least the portion who disagree with the site operators on this, are usually the ones accused of being “politically correct”?

I think the statement meant the company is trying to enforce PC, starting with porn, to the detriment of the existing userbase.

It's as dumb a move as you can possibly make; I don't know what the decisionmakers behind were smoking, but it must have been something strong.

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#27

Post by rsynnott »

furicane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't label the algorithm as anti-porn. I'd label it "how to lose user base and drive the company to a hole" algorithm. It's not likely that it detects actual porn, it's basically failing miserably and the result is abandonment. That's what you get when you want to be PC and yet another "me too, I do cool stuff too" company. There are lessons to be learned here, and for that - thank you Tumblr :)

... Wait, what do you think PC _means_?

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#28

Post by JulianMorrison »

keypusher wrote: post #5

Oath is desperate to put more ads on Tumblr, because they massively overpaid for it ($1 billion) and have been throwing money at it ever since (100s of millions). I guess because of the way the content is displayed they can't just segregate nsfw stuff into a demonetized stream, but if they think they can turn Tumblr into a mainstream site that shows family-centric ads, they clearly don't understand what they bought.

To me it feels like a "management removed the free snacks" moment. Doesn't affect me directly, but what it says about how things are changing makes me think "doomed in very short order".

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#29

Post by KozmoNau7 »

DavidVoid wrote: post #20
furicane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't label the algorithm as anti-porn. I'd label it "how to lose user base and drive the company to a hole" algorithm. It's not likely that it detects actual porn, it's basically failing miserably and the result is abandonment. That's what you get when you want to be PC and yet another "me too, I do cool stuff too" company. There are lessons to be learned here, and for that - thank you Tumblr :)

> That's what you get when you want to be PC I'd hardly consider this "trying to be PC". https://i.imgur.com/cgGx4JR.png This is more about bowing down to America's backwards views on sex and nudity, most likely in order to appease advertisers and/or Apple.

I can't imagine the advertisers being too hot on literal nazism and white supremacism, though. At least I hope not.

Re: Tumblr’s anti-porn algorithm is flagging basically everything as NSFW

#30

Post by AJ007 »

keypusher wrote: post #5

Oath is desperate to put more ads on Tumblr, because they massively overpaid for it ($1 billion) and have been throwing money at it ever since (100s of millions). I guess because of the way the content is displayed they can't just segregate nsfw stuff into a demonetized stream, but if they think they can turn Tumblr into a mainstream site that shows family-centric ads, they clearly don't understand what they bought.

This is clearly Tumblr's Digg moment. They are going to have a 100% write down on this one.

It is also worth adding Twitter has built a reasonable ad business and they are full of just as much porn as Tumblr. Google actually shows ads for porn and other adult services on their platform. If any of the higher ups at Verizon are reading this:

- Fire everyone involved in the NSFW filtering. Clearly this wasn't even tested.

- Fire everyone who thought NSFW material had to be purged from your platform.

There is a short window where you can reverse the decision and benefit from all of the people who were reminded Tumblr existed. After that window closes, your business is dead.

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