Live data from Hacker News

Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

towardsdatascience.com

21–30 of 64 posts

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#21
post #17
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I havent learned classical statistics, but I did take a machine learning course, so what I did must not have been that thing I dont know much about." >Throughout the class, my fellow students and I successfully trained models On top of that, arguing that training models is some sort of contribution to the field? In High School Statistics, we were taught how to do everything by hand, with arithmatic. Then after we de…

Or c) you didn't "develop a deep understanding of cutting-edge ML concepts."

Don't get me wrong, there is immense value to being an index of what tools are available to solve a job, which works best for what, what is on the horizon, how to put the pieces together in a way they compliment each other, when to wait for the next big thing vs jumping into the legacy way of solving a problem.

Just call a spade a spade, and admit youre more of a journalist/strategist/architect/historian than a scientist.

I dont understand what is to gain by trying to paint ML as a new field, vs being Applied Statistics, unless the end goal is to CREATE confusion and mysticism, which all in all seems very unscientific.

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#22
The post makes two main claims

"Machine Learning Does Not Require An Advanced Knowledge of Statistics"

Lets take it at its face value, even then it does not preclude ML from being glorified stats. Depending on how advanced the 'advanced' is in that statement I would agree with it. To use ML tools well you do need some familiarity with understanding how uncertainty effects the results and that is as up one can be statistics alley. I say this although I am firmly in the ML side of the tribe. BTW I would even claim this

"[Practicing] Machine Learning Does Not Require An Advanced Knowledge of Machine Learning"

The other claim that the post makes is

"Machine Learning = Representation + Evaluation + Optimization"

Whoah! big blind spot there. Dealing with and reasoning about uncertainty, generalization is a big deal in ML. Sure, it helps to argue that ML and stats is different if one ignores that bit.

I do think ML and Stats is different but not for those reasons.

Yeah ML brings to bear some tools that card holding statisticians have traditionally not used in anger before, for example, advanced and large scale optimization, algorithms, data structures.

Using new tools to address the same question does not qualify as a deep difference in my books. For example, even the fields of optimization and algorithms themselves use tools that are different from what the tools were 50 years ago. I think the main difference is in the questions that ML and Stats wants to answer, and here there indeed are differences.

Stats (barring edge cases) is primarily interested in going from a sample to making claims about the population, or making claims about something via a claim about the population. ML is primarily interested in going from a sample to another sample. (Do note sample is a collective noun.) Now, there have been statisticians (fewer in number) and a body of statistics literature that has focused on prediction as opposed to parameter recovery, but that's not main stream in Stats.

And finally in pseudo-quotes "I managed to train a model without knowing what variance is. I know variance is statistics. ML is not Statistics ... QED ". Ah I see, nevertheless, not what I would call a brilliant case of logical deduction".

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#23
I was listening to Lex Fridman's AGI Podcast where Vladimir Vapnik came to talk about Statistical Learning[0] and his take on deep learning as compared to statistics/mathematics was dismissive. To paraphrase from memory, the problems deep learning is solving is not hard enough.

There has been a rift between the statistical community and ML community for a while and I see it similar to the arguments one makes when it comes to sciences vs engineering.

[0] https://lexfridman.com/ai/

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#25
post #4

Yes, it is.

But, so is the brain.

So, I know a whole bunch of ML types who make this argument. Is this something that neurologists think?

I mean, obviously, being neither an expert on statistics, ML, or the brain, I'm unqualified to comment, but I really doubt that ML experts have a good handle on... how my biological brain works.

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#27
post #13

Here's one way I think of it: in statistics vs. machine learning, there's a difference in your goals, which is reflected in a difference in your models. - In statistics, the goal is to explain something. The models have few variables, and each variable should mean something, like the influence of the person's age or sex on the outcome. - In machine learning, the goal is to make something work. This is apparently bett…

That's the difference between inference and prediction. Both statistics and machine learning can do either of those things.

Can you give some examples of both?

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#28
post #13

Here's one way I think of it: in statistics vs. machine learning, there's a difference in your goals, which is reflected in a difference in your models. - In statistics, the goal is to explain something. The models have few variables, and each variable should mean something, like the influence of the person's age or sex on the outcome. - In machine learning, the goal is to make something work. This is apparently bett…

That's the difference between inference and prediction. Both statistics and machine learning can do either of those things.

There is a difference between 'can' and "is the central question". As I said in my comment [0], traditionally statistics is about making claims about the nature of the population from a sample. If one is operating with a parametric model, the running assumption is that one knows absolutely everything about the population except for a few parameters. Those are estimated from the data. One you have done that, one can indeed use those to do prediction and if you were lucky that the data did come from the distribution assumed, then you wont do too badly, otherwise you could perform very poorly.

ML on the other hand short circuits the step of making any claims about, or even trying to understand the population. ML straight away jumps to claims about prediction quality. Note there is non-parametric statistics, but even there (barring edge cases) the central object of inquiry is the population. There is also prequential statistics that also jumps directly to claims about prediction without making any claims about understanding the population. Prequential stats is fascinating, and it is what is closes to ML in spirit.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18591143

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#29

I've been meaning to ask if "townrdsdatascience" is a serious website, but I guess this answers it. It seems in order for the argument here to make sense, you have to say that predictive modelling is outside the field of statistics, and that "a class of computational algorithms" (presumably including classic ML algorithms such as decision trees, random forest and support vector machines) are also not statistical algo…

> Classical statistics is very much focused on explaining a dataset, whereas ML is very much focused on making future predictions.

True enough. Could you slightly change this and say statistics is about understanding the past and ML is about predicting the future? The only way to predict the future is to understand the past, or be very lucky.

Re: Machine learning is not just glorified statistics

#30

I've been meaning to ask if "townrdsdatascience" is a serious website, but I guess this answers it. It seems in order for the argument here to make sense, you have to say that predictive modelling is outside the field of statistics, and that "a class of computational algorithms" (presumably including classic ML algorithms such as decision trees, random forest and support vector machines) are also not statistical algo…

> Classical statistics is very much focused on explaining a dataset, whereas ML is very much focused on making future predictions. True enough. Could you slightly change this and say statistics is about understanding the past and ML is about predicting the future? The only way to predict the future is to understand the past, or be very lucky.

One branch of statistics is about understanding the past. Statisticians are very much interested in predicting the future and have methods that look nothing like ML.
Post reply on HN