Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

deadspin.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 168 posts

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#21

Post by mindgam3 »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16
mindgam3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

Honestly this seems closest to the truth. His attitude and body language at the press conference communicated utter boredom for the whole proceedings.

As a chess fan I admit I’m eager to see a rapid tiebreaks. I just didn’t want to get here like this.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#22

Post by ubernostrum »

lazyant wrote: post #4

In past World Chess Championships when they finished tied with points the current champion retained the title, which I found disappointing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Chess_Championship_1987#...

I believe Carlsen is on record as disliking the current format.

The way it works right now, the reigning champion does nothing until a challenger has earned the right to face him by winning a candidates tournament. Then the winner of the candidates tournament faces the reigning champion in a match for the title. Carlsen, as I understand it, would prefer that the champion take part in a tournament.

The women's championship (also played this month) does feature a tournament. 64 players were seeded, and played single-elimination two-game matches (with rapid games as tiebreakers). The final two players then faced each other in a four-game match (again with rapid games as potential tiebreakers). The final did go to tiebreaks, and was won by defending and now repeat champion Ju Wenjun.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#23

Post by williamscales »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16
mindgam3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

I heard a story (not sure if it's true) when I was a fencer. At one time in fencing, there was a rule about inactivity. If you refused to fence, the period ended and the next period started. There are three periods. If all three periods ended this way, it went to a one point suddend death matchoff. Well, one individual felt he liked to win with a lot of panache. As I heard it, he would deliberately incur three inactivity penalties to send the match to a one point sudden death where he would try to pull off a daring victory. So I think there is precedent for the idea of really skilled competitors thirsting for something more thrilling.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#24

Post by ggggtez »

mindgam3 wrote: post #2

Ladies, if he: - doesn’t return your texts - doesn’t comment on your pics - offers a draw in a clearly superior position just as his opponent gets into time trouble in the final round of the World Chess Championships - says he “doesn’t care” at the press conference when informed that all chess playing engines, grandmasters, and rank amateurs could see that he had a dominating position - was previously legendary for h…

Please don't post your bad comedy routine here.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#25

Post by ubernostrum »

mindgam3 wrote: post #8
gregorymichael wrote: post #6

tl;dr after 11 draws, Carlsen offered a draw from a superior position in the final game to head into the short-format tiebreaks, where: > he is ranked No. 1 in all three formats (classical, rapid, and blitz). Caruana is ranked 10th and 18th in rapid and blitz respectively. Critics are appalled that he didn't fight for the win out of sense of honor. I don't see how this is different than, for instance, fouling at the…

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

chess.com is running a "tournament" of the top computer chess engines to play out the final position of Game 12 and see how it goes:

https://www.chess.com/news/view/computer-chess-championship-...

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#26

Post by EGreg »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16
mindgam3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care).

This!

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#27

Post by ubernostrum »

mindgam3 wrote: post #7
mdallastella wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carlsen is not in the shape he used to be and I can understand his choice. I don't like his attitude, but he has all the rights to manage its tournament the way he thinks best.

Sure. I don’t like his attitude either, which is why I’m rooting for Fabi. I understand he has the right to manage the tournament as he sees fit. I just don’t understand the logic of not even trying to push for a few more moves. Low risk, high reward given his huge time advantage.

It's a little more complicated than that.

Yes, he was in a position that both engines and human grandmasters said was superior, with time pressure. But there's no clear line to force difficult moves for Caruana before the time control kicks in after move 40, and then it's a whole new game; Caruana gets a fresh 50 minutes on the clock and can potentially fight his way to an exhausting draw. Plus there's the risk that any blunder -- and remember this is coming in a crowded, grindy-looking middlegame -- loses the championship.

From that spot, it makes sense for Carlsen to try to go straight to the tiebreak games where he feels he's more strongly favored.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#28

Post by [deleted] »

mindgam3 wrote: post #21
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

Honestly this seems closest to the truth. His attitude and body language at the press conference communicated utter boredom for the whole proceedings. As a chess fan I admit I’m eager to see a rapid tiebreaks. I just didn’t want to get here like this.

[deleted]

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#29

Post by marvin »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16
mindgam3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

As a non-chess-fan but casual observer, I would say that this is what sports showmanship really looks like. This is Petter Northug jr. (a fellow Norwegian; controversial cross-country skier and Olympic champion) playing chess.

The big fame and sponsor money is not in _merely_ being the best in the world, it's in winning while pushing the creative limits of the sport and causing a fair amount of drama and controversy.

Carlsen gets more out of this than winning in the 12th game, both on a personal level and in terms of notoriety and sponsorship interest.

This does not conflict with being bored, or with pushing the boundaries of the format! Like trying to re-play your favorite computer game, but placing artificial limitations on yourself to make it more interesting. If it gets all the fans and observers riled up, all the better! It's well within the rules!

Besides, what if he screws up in the later matches, in spite of the odds? The pressure is still on, which makes the entertainment value even better!0

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#30

Post by leesec »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #16
mindgam3 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don’t understand is why Carlsen didn’t push for even a few more moves. Fabi was running out time, it was low risk for him to probe a little more and see if he could get something a little more decisive.

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe Carlsen is just bored? It takes effort to tie 12 straight games between two world champions. Additionally, it is not in Carlsen's best interest to finish the tournament. During the tournament he is a super star. After the tournament he is just some guy who has a chess trophy (i.e. most people in real life don't care). Maybe he is just testing himself with some criteria that is…

I do not think this is the case at all. The games were all very close, with no side gaining more than a +2 ( a 2 pawn equivalent ) advantage. He actually seemed extremely nervous of losing during game 10.

It's hard to say why he called off game 12 earlier than usual but in his words he was basically rattled, and proceeding any further may open him up to defeat so he just chose to take the safer route of heading to the blitz match where is the favorite.

Post reply on HN