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What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

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Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#21

Post by thelittleone »

andy_ppp wrote: post #8
stephengillie wrote: post #2

> In fact, search advertisers buy search ads by bidding on keywords, not people. It makes intuitive sense, too. If you search for ‘car’, you are more likely to respond to a car ad than something you searched for last week. This keyword-based advertising is our primary business model. The rest of the post is a rant about user tracking.

Rant seems extremely strong - how about we go with well thought through set of opinions that the CEO of Duck Duck Go is rigorously applying to his product. I personally found his argument so persuasive I intend to set everything to DuckDuckGo again now.

I made the switch to DDG about 12 months ago for all devices. It has been an entirely positive experience.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#22

Post by dna_polymerase »

Oh look another anonymous question on Quora about a company, answered by the CEO of said company. And it is answered in such a direct way without any marketing for his service at all. \s

These Q&A things on Quora are getting ridiculous. Without all the fluff that thing would condense to one sentence: We make money by context search ads and affiliate commission on !bang searches.

The thing that I thought made Google even better (back in the 200xs) was that Google did no advertising for their service. People just recommended their service because it was so useful and good. DDG can't live up to that standard and so they have to highlight their built-in privacy whenever possible. It's like everything they offer, they rub it in your face. It feels like they don't care about the search problem but only about being so much more privacy-focused than Google.

I can switch to StartPage and have Google + Privacy, with DDG it is just privacy without any good search results.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#23

Post by chiefalchemist »

> "Here are a few actionable things companies can do to remain profitable without tracking the maximum amount of information possible on consumers:"

Can we add to his list:

> Offer a paid option such that consumers who want to pay for privacy / less ads / no ads can.

> Along with a paid option, companies should develop partnerships with like minded peers.

For example, DDG could pair with various VPN providers and the DDG paid tier could included "free" with your VPN fee. That is, one payment, not two, two related services.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#24

Post by cgriswald »

dpcan wrote: post #9
stephengillie wrote: post #2

> In fact, search advertisers buy search ads by bidding on keywords, not people. It makes intuitive sense, too. If you search for ‘car’, you are more likely to respond to a car ad than something you searched for last week. This keyword-based advertising is our primary business model. The rest of the post is a rant about user tracking.

I think there's a problem with this model however. When the highest bidder wins, consumers and advertisers can lose, big. I understand how DDG has to say this is the best and smartest way to do things because they have to live with their promise of not creeping on their visitors - so they can't use the same analytics that someone like Google has. It's just marketing. But the ads that go to the top should be the most…

> But the ads that go to the top should be the most valuable...

Why? I'm not using DDG for the advertisements. I'm using them for search.

> I just can't trust an ad format where I know the top click just spends the most money.

This seems orthogonal to whether the actual target is a keyword or user-tracked data. If two firms want to target the same demographic (e.g., Ford and Chevy want to target 20-something Dodge Ram owners who search for 'truck'), something has to decide which advertisements to display on top.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#25

Post by dgacmu »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #18
dgacmu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask it this way: if Google could find a revenue model with users paying for search with no ads, would they turn off ads? Yes, probably. If Google could turn off search and still make as much money just showing ads? No. (The vast majority of Google's ad revenue comes.from search advertising.) Google is a search company that depends critically on ads to exist. It also has an advertising company component to it, but the…

> If Google could turn off search and still make as much money just showing ads? No. You're not serious right? Google doesn't run a search engine for the fun of it, they're a for-profit company, if they can pull out an extra margin without search they would do that immediately. The core value is absolutely not search, search is an acquisition channel to bring in customers to click on ads. No one is paying them for se…

You're confusing source of revenue with source of value. Both Google and DDG offer value by providing desirable search results (and other services).

As I said: for both companies, the revenue source is fungible. The core value is not. DDG would still be DDG with a different revenue model. It would not be DDG without search.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#26

Post by stephengillie »

cletus wrote: post #20
dpcan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a problem with this model however. When the highest bidder wins, consumers and advertisers can lose, big. I understand how DDG has to say this is the best and smartest way to do things because they have to live with their promise of not creeping on their visitors - so they can't use the same analytics that someone like Google has. It's just marketing. But the ads that go to the top should be the most…

That's not how this model works. There are three general models of online advertising: - CPM: you pay per impression (ie how often the ad is seen) - CPC: cost per click. You only pay when the user clicks. - CPA: you only pay when the user clicks and does something (eg buys something) Display advertising (putting ads on third-party websites eg AdSense) is primarily CPM. Search advertising is primarily CPC (or at least…

CPM should be updated to CPK.

The M in CPM is the Roman numeral for 1000. It's an archaic term, and should be replaced with the SI unit for 1000. Though coining the phrase "kilo-impression" would be a stretch.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#27

Post by RobertDeNiro »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #22

Oh look another anonymous question on Quora about a company, answered by the CEO of said company. And it is answered in such a direct way without any marketing for his service at all. \s These Q&A things on Quora are getting ridiculous. Without all the fluff that thing would condense to one sentence: We make money by context search ads and affiliate commission on !bang searches. The thing that I thought made Google e…

Quora is garbage. It's full of self-proclaimed experts, who give the impression that their answers are more valuable than those found on other questions/answering sites.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#28

Post by daveFNbuck »

dpcan wrote: post #9
stephengillie wrote: post #2

> In fact, search advertisers buy search ads by bidding on keywords, not people. It makes intuitive sense, too. If you search for ‘car’, you are more likely to respond to a car ad than something you searched for last week. This keyword-based advertising is our primary business model. The rest of the post is a rant about user tracking.

I think there's a problem with this model however. When the highest bidder wins, consumers and advertisers can lose, big. I understand how DDG has to say this is the best and smartest way to do things because they have to live with their promise of not creeping on their visitors - so they can't use the same analytics that someone like Google has. It's just marketing. But the ads that go to the top should be the most…

You already trust your search engine to rank results based on your search terms. They can do the same thing for their ads without having to do additional tracking. These features can pretty easily be added to the auction if you consider bad ads as a cost to your company.

You end up showing the ad that maximizes something like bid * click_rate + quality_score * quality_value. quality_value can be tweaked to change the balance between short-term revenue and ad quality.

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#29

Post by woah »

dpcan wrote: post #9
stephengillie wrote: post #2

> In fact, search advertisers buy search ads by bidding on keywords, not people. It makes intuitive sense, too. If you search for ‘car’, you are more likely to respond to a car ad than something you searched for last week. This keyword-based advertising is our primary business model. The rest of the post is a rant about user tracking.

I think there's a problem with this model however. When the highest bidder wins, consumers and advertisers can lose, big. I understand how DDG has to say this is the best and smartest way to do things because they have to live with their promise of not creeping on their visitors - so they can't use the same analytics that someone like Google has. It's just marketing. But the ads that go to the top should be the most…

Are you implying that there’s an ad format that you can trust?

Re: What is the revenue generation model for DuckDuckGo?

#30

Post by robin_reala »

cletus wrote: post #20
dpcan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a problem with this model however. When the highest bidder wins, consumers and advertisers can lose, big. I understand how DDG has to say this is the best and smartest way to do things because they have to live with their promise of not creeping on their visitors - so they can't use the same analytics that someone like Google has. It's just marketing. But the ads that go to the top should be the most…

That's not how this model works. There are three general models of online advertising: - CPM: you pay per impression (ie how often the ad is seen) - CPC: cost per click. You only pay when the user clicks. - CPA: you only pay when the user clicks and does something (eg buys something) Display advertising (putting ads on third-party websites eg AdSense) is primarily CPM. Search advertising is primarily CPC (or at least…

You missed out the other model of cost per slot, e.g. Daring Fireball’s ad, various podcasts, etc. While you’re paying for visibility it’s not a direct CPM as there’s a fixed cost for the time.
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