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How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

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Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#21

Post by etymacct123 »

geoalchimista wrote: post #19
etymacct123 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to mention rice is an indian word as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice#Etymology but last time i tried mentioning that someone accused me of hindu nationalism and the banhammer was gonna fall

Genetic evidence suggests that rice was cultivated in Southeast Asia (Yangtze River Valley). See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3101000/ . So, its true linguistic origin may still be something upstream.

actually genetic evidence is for multiple centres of domestication with later mixing

providing a link for this is what got me accused last time so just search for how old is indian agriculture on your fave search engine

in any case the chinese word is mi and has no linguistic relation to the word rice

even the japanese call rice with a mix of the chinese and indian words

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#22

Post by jogjayr »

etymacct123 wrote: post #14

not just curry but soup is also indian! of course completely denied by the west so far soup is from sanskrit supa attested in arthashastra of kautilya dated to 1st millennium BC by westerners and 2nd millennium BC by indians see link for specific quote from the text: http://www.alexmthomas.com/2016/05/22/a-review-of-trautmanns...

Soup as a dish, or the etymology of the word "soup"? Because soup as a dish predates recorded history certainly[1] (evidence found for it as far back as 20,0000 BC) but possibly even the modern human species. And if the dish is that old and universal, every culture would have its own name for it. "supa" and "soup" sounding similar is probably just a coincidence.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#23

Post by etymacct123 »

jogjayr wrote: post #22
etymacct123 wrote: post #14

not just curry but soup is also indian! of course completely denied by the west so far soup is from sanskrit supa attested in arthashastra of kautilya dated to 1st millennium BC by westerners and 2nd millennium BC by indians see link for specific quote from the text: http://www.alexmthomas.com/2016/05/22/a-review-of-trautmanns...

Soup as a dish, or the etymology of the word "soup"? Because soup as a dish predates recorded history certainly[1] (evidence found for it as far back as 20,0000 BC) but possibly even the modern human species. And if the dish is that old and universal, every culture would have its own name for it. "supa" and "soup" sounding similar is probably just a coincidence. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup

it is not just similar sounds

ctrl f supa in the link above i believe the dish described is basically the same

and the arthashastra in any case outclasses all other attestations even if you take western dating

the pushback on this etymology is seemingly more than even for the word cash which is also an indian word but the english would even prefer to credit the french for it than indians

french caisse is a tangential link at best while tamil cash is actually cash and got printed on coins as such and derives from sanskrit karsha a measure of weight also attested in arthashastra and so of similar age

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#24

Post by geoalchimista »

etymacct123 wrote: post #21
geoalchimista wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetic evidence suggests that rice was cultivated in Southeast Asia (Yangtze River Valley). See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3101000/ . So, its true linguistic origin may still be something upstream.

actually genetic evidence is for multiple centres of domestication with later mixing providing a link for this is what got me accused last time so just search for how old is indian agriculture on your fave search engine in any case the chinese word is mi and has no linguistic relation to the word rice even the japanese call rice with a mix of the chinese and indian words

> in any case the chinese word is mi and has no linguistic relation to the word rice

I'm not suggesting a Chinese origin of the word. But I suspect this may not be the final answer. First, the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation of the character "mi" (rice) today may not be the same as what it was pronounced 10,000 years ago. Second, people who lived in the Yangtze River Valley back then might not be speaking a Sinitic language. They might be speaking a Kra-Tai language.

> just search for how old is indian agriculture on your fave search engine

Pretty sure there were multiple origins of agriculture (e.g., Mesopotamia and Levant among others). It is difficult to argue which place came up with agriculture first.

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#26

Post by etymacct123 »

geoalchimista wrote: post #24
etymacct123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually genetic evidence is for multiple centres of domestication with later mixing providing a link for this is what got me accused last time so just search for how old is indian agriculture on your fave search engine in any case the chinese word is mi and has no linguistic relation to the word rice even the japanese call rice with a mix of the chinese and indian words

> in any case the chinese word is mi and has no linguistic relation to the word rice I'm not suggesting a Chinese origin of the word. But I suspect this may not be the final answer. First, the Mandarin Chinese pronunciation of the character "mi" (rice) today may not be the same as what it was pronounced 10,000 years ago. Second, people who lived in the Yangtze River Valley back then might not be speaking a Sinitic la…

ok but postulating chinese called it rice first and then switched to mi but rest of world kept it as rice is a stretch

rice entered europe as oryza not all that long ago and the link to tamil arici is straightforward and heavy trade existed between rome and india such that we keep finding hoards of roman era coins in india

romans were even complaining of a trade deficit with indians and emptying of their treasury

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#27

Post by temp0876456 »

jgorn wrote: post #13
delbel wrote: post #6

I eat pre-mixed Thai curry paste from this brand called "Mae Ploy" with coconut oil, powdered coconut milk, meat (either chicken or beef) and vegetables. There's about five different flavors and for $8 you get a 2 pound bucket of it I have never actually been able to finish one in less than a year. Turns out I can eat an amazing very low carb meal for about $2 a day and 2-3 minutes of meal prep. It's currently my "me…

That sounds delicious, I love how much flavour is packed in Thai curry paste. But how can you make a fully cooked curry in 2-3 minutes?

Thai curry is cooked quickly, usually in a wok. Japanese curry, in contrast, is usually simmered for a long time. The latter is to thicken and soften the meat and vegetables. Thai curry’s consistency is managed by using more or less coconut milk vs the actual paste. And the meat and vegetable pieces are cut much smaller so they cook almost instantly.

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#28

Post by malloryerik »

cfjgvjh wrote: post #3

There is a page on the Ministry of Defense website listing curry recipes for various ships/subs/etc. in the JMSDF. http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/formal/family/recipe/archive/curre...

I do wish they'd change the Japanese naval flag -- in much of East Asia the Rising Sun Flag is seen as a symbol of oppression and Japanese imperialism, almost as potent as a Nazi swastika. It doesn't do Japan any good to fly the old imperial flag from every Maritime Self Defense Force vessel, even if it was the naval flag since 1889 (by which time Japan already had imperial designs).

Re: How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition

#30

Post by rangibaby »

malloryerik wrote: post #28
cfjgvjh wrote: post #3

There is a page on the Ministry of Defense website listing curry recipes for various ships/subs/etc. in the JMSDF. http://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/formal/family/recipe/archive/curre...

I do wish they'd change the Japanese naval flag -- in much of East Asia the Rising Sun Flag is seen as a symbol of oppression and Japanese imperialism, almost as potent as a Nazi swastika. It doesn't do Japan any good to fly the old imperial flag from every Maritime Self Defense Force vessel, even if it was the naval flag since 1889 (by which time Japan already had imperial designs).

If the Japanese had to change their military symbols for that reason, every country in the world would. Even Germany still uses the iron cross as the symbol of their air force.
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