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Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

theguardian.com

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Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#21

Post by tynpeddler »

tomp wrote: post #16
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

How does it work in practice though? Monsanto's RoundUp hasn't been getting rave reviews lately ...

That's a pr problem, not a science problem. But you bring up a good point, even if you come up with the perfect technical solution, if people are suspicious, or there are bad actors out there with pseudoscience products to sell, you can get dumpstered for no good reason. The fact that we're struggling to maintain herd immunity in certain population segments tells you how hard it can be to defend good solutions in the face of irrational paranoia.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#22

Post by thaumasiotes »

dragontamer wrote: post #7
jugg1es wrote: post #2

Organophosphates are like the primary insecticide used worldwide. How do you replace it? I don't see anywhere where they propose an alternative.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

> I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage.

Breeding poisonous crops has its own obvious disadvantages. Is it better to spray poison on your food that can be washed off, or is it better for the food to be naturally suffused with poison?

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#23

Post by slacka »

tomp wrote: post #16
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

How does it work in practice though? Monsanto's RoundUp hasn't been getting rave reviews lately ...

Why are you conflating RoundUp (NOT even a pesticide) with all GMOs? Attacking GMO technology because of one company's misuse is like attacking electricity because of the electric chair.

We're talking about replacing pesticides. Monsanto is in the business of selling herbicides and pesticides, so of course they're not going to use the tech to neuter their profits. If anything they are benefiting from the negative press and comments like your own as it discourage the public from supporting the necessary government research. I doubt this will come from private corporations as the profit motive just isn't there.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#24

Post by _bfhp »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #11
jugg1es wrote: post #2

Organophosphates are like the primary insecticide used worldwide. How do you replace it? I don't see anywhere where they propose an alternative.

You don't replace it. Instead, we need to adjust our thinking when it comes to growing food.

Or, having children. Natalism -- the positive and negative values constructed around having vs. not having children, the pressure put upon women to reproduce until they biologically can't anymore in most (really all) countries -- as a social reality is almost never thought about, much less discussed as potentially 'adjustable'.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#25

Post by bigmit37 »

ptero wrote: post #18
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

I do not agree with the current bout of GMO scaremongering, but I think your first sentence is off the mark. I heard from the friends on the biotech side (and sorry, do not have a citation) that many current GMO cultures are engineered specifically for high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides to kill all other flora and fauna without killing specific crops. So, GMO good (or allows for significant bene…

Is there a regulation to how much pesticides they can spray into foods?

If this is the case then non GMOs sounds more appealing.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#26

Post by vixen99 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #15
dragontamer wrote: post #8

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/rmpp_6t... EPA has this little chapter on organophosphates. Seems like this class of pesticides is well known to be toxic to humans.

I think there will be a time in the future when we'll look back and think how crazy people were in 2018 pumping all kinds of known toxins into the environment. It will probably be the same incredulity we have when we look at people using radium toothpaste in 1920 or the mad hatters working with mercury the whole day and going crazy.

Or in 2050, wondering why in 2018, mercury amalgam (Hg is an established neurotoxin) was still in significant use (except in Norway, Sweden and Denmark) as a dental filler.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#27

Post by nostromo »

ptero wrote: post #18
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

I do not agree with the current bout of GMO scaremongering, but I think your first sentence is off the mark. I heard from the friends on the biotech side (and sorry, do not have a citation) that many current GMO cultures are engineered specifically for high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides to kill all other flora and fauna without killing specific crops. So, GMO good (or allows for significant bene…

Yes this is common now. For example Monsanto has Roundup Ready GMO crops & Roundup:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready

The crops are designed to withstand Roundup, while weeds are not, so farmers can use Roundup to control weeds with crops that would normally be killed by the herbicide.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#28

Post by sndean »

ptero wrote: post #18
dragontamer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

I do not agree with the current bout of GMO scaremongering, but I think your first sentence is off the mark. I heard from the friends on the biotech side (and sorry, do not have a citation) that many current GMO cultures are engineered specifically for high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides to kill all other flora and fauna without killing specific crops. So, GMO good (or allows for significant bene…

> high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides

(I'm sort of in biotech.) This is one way to look at it. But I'm pretty sure one of the mechanisms that allow the plants to survive being covered in certain pesticides also allows them to effectively decontaminate / degrade the pesticide.

A plant engineered to express an enzyme capable of degrading organophosphates [0] could allow for both the plant to be protected from exposure to the toxin & even after harvesting still express low levels of the enzyme which should clean the plant.

That's the idea at least... From experience, it's not nearly that simple. E.g., the degradation products are also somewhat toxic.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryldialkylphosphatase

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#29

Post by cmrdporcupine »

dragontamer wrote: post #7
jugg1es wrote: post #2

Organophosphates are like the primary insecticide used worldwide. How do you replace it? I don't see anywhere where they propose an alternative.

I mean, its sorta why GMOs exist. To reduce the need of pesticides that are sprayed on farms. I've always considered GMOs to be the lesser evil when compared to standard pesticide usage. Not all produce have a insect-resistant type however. So pesticides are still needed to protect certain plants.

No, mainstream popular production GMOs have precisely the opposite purpose. They're there to be be selectively resistant to bucketloads of herbicides while everything around them dies.

Living next door to this and trying to grow things that aren't corn or soy is "fun", let me tell you.

Re: Ban organophosphate pesticides to protect children's health, experts say

#30

Post by cmrdporcupine »

nostromo wrote: post #27
ptero wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree with the current bout of GMO scaremongering, but I think your first sentence is off the mark. I heard from the friends on the biotech side (and sorry, do not have a citation) that many current GMO cultures are engineered specifically for high pesticide tolerance so farms can pump in pesticides to kill all other flora and fauna without killing specific crops. So, GMO good (or allows for significant bene…

Yes this is common now. For example Monsanto has Roundup Ready GMO crops & Roundup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready The crops are designed to withstand Roundup, while weeds are not, so farmers can use Roundup to control weeds with crops that would normally be killed by the herbicide.

Roundup (glyphosate) ready is baby stuff compared to the newer stuff that is resistant to 2,4d/Dicamba. Mostly because the weeds have outsmarted the glyphosate.

Drift from 2,4d will wipe out plants (like your garden, or my vineyard, or like, endangered native plants) many kilometres away.

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