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2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

mdjasper.github.io

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Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#21

Post by suresk »

pmilla1606 wrote: post #18
mdjasper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my intuition that salary increases with experience for that time until you have basically "capped out" what the market will pay for your skills. After 9 or 10 years, talent and skill are probably a more a factor than experience. Another way of saying that would be the difference in pay between a 1 and 3 year developer would be pretty easy to explain on experience alone. But, the difference in pay between a 12 an…

Is there a hard ceiling for salaries for developers? Does one need to move into management/consulting/something in order for ones salary to keep increasing? Lately I've been feeling like I've hit my ceiling and I need to start investigating where to go from here but that may just be my perception/pessimism.

Sort of.. For a given area, experience level, and skillset, there is going to be a general range that will give you an idea of where you are. Recruiters are sometimes helpful for figuring that out, and so are reports like this.

I don't know that switching paths is always a good bet - on more than one occasion, I've made more than my boss - and often not by a little bit. Principal-level developers are often compensated at director or even low-level VP amounts. Of course, at this level, you're not heads-down coding all of the time, even if you aren't managing people.

Going into management and getting stuck as a mid-level dev manager is probably not going to net you as much compensation as improving your skillset as a developer will.

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#22

Post by phaedryx »

bsimpson wrote: post #15

Salaries in Utah are a lot healthier than I expected. Maybe moving away from SF wouldn't be as big of a salary cut as I thought...

I live in Utah and work remote (best combination for me). The local tech community is vibrant and fun.

Every time I've talked to devs who have moved from SF they universally tell me stories about:

1. Ridiculous cost of living

2. Horrific commutes

Which has soured me on the idea of ever moving there.

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#24

Post by suresk »

mdjasper wrote: post #8
imglorp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to speak directly to someone taking a survey, thank you for posting. My question isn't about your surveys themselves, but rather if you have observed any bias in other surveys compared to your results. A pessimist might believe that most compensation surveys are used by peer HR departments to set compensation bands and, naturally, they have incentive to systematically report those surveys low. Then t…

That's a great question. I haven't directly seen any other surveys performed by "the other side" so to speak. But in looking at comparative data online ( https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/utah-computer-programmer-... for example), our dataset seems to show a more broad range of pay (both lower and higher). Anecdotally, I have been told by a couple former managers something along the lines of "the highest payed engin…

Reports on Glassdoor have always felt kind of on the low-end, not sure why.

> Anecdotally, I have been told by a couple former managers something along the lines of "the highest payed engineers in Utah are in the 120k range," which this survey shows is not the case.

I think part of the problem is that the range can be so huge. I've seen senior developer postings in the last year that range anywhere from $85k to $160k. I'm guessing a lot of managers have limited experience and knowledge about salaries outside of their company, rather than intentionally trying to downplay salaries.

I would personally guess that the 95% for senior/principal devs in Utah is in the $140-160k range. The only people I know above $200k would be people doing 1099 work and maybe some one-offs from stock options.

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#26

Post by necubi »

pmilla1606 wrote: post #18
mdjasper wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my intuition that salary increases with experience for that time until you have basically "capped out" what the market will pay for your skills. After 9 or 10 years, talent and skill are probably a more a factor than experience. Another way of saying that would be the difference in pay between a 1 and 3 year developer would be pretty easy to explain on experience alone. But, the difference in pay between a 12 an…

Is there a hard ceiling for salaries for developers? Does one need to move into management/consulting/something in order for ones salary to keep increasing? Lately I've been feeling like I've hit my ceiling and I need to start investigating where to go from here but that may just be my perception/pessimism.

There's no ceiling for developer pay (or at least, you're likely nowhere close to it). Large companies with technical tracks pay 1MM+/year for high-level engineers. Mid-level ("Senior" in title) engineers can easily clear half that.

A few things to note:

* Salaries like that are basically only possible at large public, engineering-driven companies, or finance firms (possibly also high-end consultancies, but I have little knowledge there)

* As you get more senior, a larger and larger percent of your take-home pay will be in the form of stock and bonuses; base salary rises much more slowly

* At the highest levels, you're unlikely to be writing much code. Mostly you'll be leading projects, reviewing technical designs, working with execs, etc.

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#27

Post by suresk »

necubi wrote: post #26
pmilla1606 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a hard ceiling for salaries for developers? Does one need to move into management/consulting/something in order for ones salary to keep increasing? Lately I've been feeling like I've hit my ceiling and I need to start investigating where to go from here but that may just be my perception/pessimism.

There's no ceiling for developer pay (or at least, you're likely nowhere close to it). Large companies with technical tracks pay 1MM+/year for high-level engineers. Mid-level ("Senior" in title) engineers can easily clear half that. A few things to note: * Salaries like that are basically only possible at large public, engineering-driven companies, or finance firms (possibly also high-end consultancies, but I have li…

I think it's important to note that this is very location-dependent.

In Utah, where this survey was taken, I'd be willing to bet the number of people with developer-like titles consistently bringing home > $250k take-home probably is less than 0.1% of the dev population, whereas in a place like SF/Seattle/NYC, it is a lot more common.

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#29

Post by dsnuh »

mdjasper wrote: post #2

For the last couple years, I've conducted a survey of software engineers in my region about their pay, education, and other career related things. I believe strongly that opening up discussions about pay will help everyone overcome some of that information asymmetry especially early in their careers. 2017 Survey info for comparison https://mdjasper.github.io/utah-js-pay-data/

Great article and data, thanks for doing this.

Small note: you have a typo, "long tale" should be "long tail".

Re: 2018 UtahJS Pay, Education, Job-title Survey

#30

Post by mdjasper »

dsnuh wrote: post #29
mdjasper wrote: post #2

For the last couple years, I've conducted a survey of software engineers in my region about their pay, education, and other career related things. I believe strongly that opening up discussions about pay will help everyone overcome some of that information asymmetry especially early in their careers. 2017 Survey info for comparison https://mdjasper.github.io/utah-js-pay-data/

Great article and data, thanks for doing this. Small note: you have a typo, "long tale" should be "long tail".

Thanks!
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