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Show HN: How to start a business in France

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Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#21

Post by JPLeRouzic »

daxat_staglatz wrote: post #12
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #3

I am French and I applaud at any initiative to help the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)! 1. But even if my browser is set to English, I see French on https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/ and most of the issues on the Github repository are written in French! What signal do you want to send? 2. As one can find on " https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/" the employee gets only half of what the…

> the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)! That public spending is c. 55% of GDP does not mean that private spending is 45% of GDP, since private + public spending does not equal GDP. Back of the envelope computations put private spending at 265% of GDP [0]. > if she is hired now, there is a good probability that she will have only a little retirement pension in 40 years, even if t…

> It is hard to understand how French people can both have "very low" pensions and then be one of the country that spend the most on pensions as a share of GDP [1], and have retirees richer than working people [2, p5.]

Yes that is entirely true, but you do not take in account that:

* The median average revenue is around 1200 euros per month!

* The pension is financed partly through the debt (one third)

* There are nearly as much retirees as workers (16M vs 17M)

* We are 65 M people and our "social security" is based on 17M people who are payed a misery? The system will bankrupt soon.

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#22

Post by JPLeRouzic »

nodefourtytwo wrote: post #9
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #3

I am French and I applaud at any initiative to help the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)! 1. But even if my browser is set to English, I see French on https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/ and most of the issues on the Github repository are written in French! What signal do you want to send? 2. As one can find on " https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/" the employee gets only half of what the…

Why spreading FUD? Social security paid for 76% of all medical costs in 2014 (last numbers I could find). 92% of hospital bills 64% of doctors visits 62% of drugs, glasses and such. Most prescribed drugs by your doctor being reimbursed 100% you don't even have to pay at the pharmacy. http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/protectio... You also have a very simplistic way of understanding how our retirement…

> Most prescribed drugs by your doctor being reimbursed 100% you don't even have to pay at the pharmacy.

Not paying at the pharmacy does not mean that you do not pay at all. You pay three times: Your employer pays for you a huge amount, you pay (look at your payroll), your mutual fund pays.

Most people pay much more indirectly during their life than they receive services through the SS.

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#23

Post by pjc50 »

I'm slightly surprised to see that not only is this in English but there isn't even an obvious option to switch it to French. That's pretty un-French in the first place.

It's interesting to read the SARL process and compare it with the UK one: https://www.gov.uk/limited-company-formation

In the UK, not only is a company bank account not a prerequisite, it's the other way round - you form the company first. There's no requirement to notify a newspaper. There's no minimum capital requirement. The minimum filing requirements are pretty light.

The more I think about social security requirements, the more I think they should just be paid out of general taxation and not entangled with a particular relationship of "employment".

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#24

Post by sashimy »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #19

In Europe you can't fire employees. It makes it nearly impossible to run a startup. It is the very antithesis of running a startup. Unless you get lucky and can survive by hiring contractors, just forget about starting a startup in Europe. Source: 2 startups in Europe.

First of all, why do you need to fire employees to run a startup ? I don't think this is a major need in the development of a startup in fact firing someone is dangerous since you lose experience and knowledge.

France as many countries in Europe have laws that protect employees against abuse from companies but you can still fire someone if there is a reason it is just regulated.

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#25

Post by remify »

saiya-jin wrote: post #18
nerbert wrote: post #8

France is a fantastic country to start a company: very little things to pay until you actually make a profit, company creation process is easy, consequences for failure are very low to inexistant if you’re a startup. And the state is there to help you get all kind of loans by offering guarantees to the banks for you.

Firing people is ridiculously hard in France. I would say quite an important point in case startup experiences anything else but ideal logarithmic growth, actually even in that case (realizing somebody wasn't a great hire after trial period)

It's hard if you don't have a good reason.

I think the economic instability in a startup (a real one) would allow more freedom.

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#26

Post by JPLeRouzic »

nodefourtytwo wrote: post #9
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #3

I am French and I applaud at any initiative to help the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)! 1. But even if my browser is set to English, I see French on https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/ and most of the issues on the Github repository are written in French! What signal do you want to send? 2. As one can find on " https://embauche.beta.gouv.fr/" the employee gets only half of what the…

Why spreading FUD? Social security paid for 76% of all medical costs in 2014 (last numbers I could find). 92% of hospital bills 64% of doctors visits 62% of drugs, glasses and such. Most prescribed drugs by your doctor being reimbursed 100% you don't even have to pay at the pharmacy. http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/protectio... You also have a very simplistic way of understanding how our retirement…

> You also have a very simplistic way of understanding how our retirement pension system works and the role it has in the society.

I may have a simplistic way to understand it, but I am well educated in business and I had to hire people during my professional life.

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#27

Post by roma1n »

JPLeRouzic wrote: post #21
daxat_staglatz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the part of the French economy not under the government control (circa 45%)! That public spending is c. 55% of GDP does not mean that private spending is 45% of GDP, since private + public spending does not equal GDP. Back of the envelope computations put private spending at 265% of GDP [0]. > if she is hired now, there is a good probability that she will have only a little retirement pension in 40 years, even if t…

> It is hard to understand how French people can both have "very low" pensions and then be one of the country that spend the most on pensions as a share of GDP [1], and have retirees richer than working people [2, p5.] Yes that is entirely true, but you do not take in account that: * The median average revenue is around 1200 euros per month! * The pension is financed partly through the debt (one third) * There are ne…

The median salary is around 1800 euros for workers[1]. Not sure where you got the 1200 euros figure from.

[1] https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/3135908

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#28

Post by baud147258 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #18
nerbert wrote: post #8

France is a fantastic country to start a company: very little things to pay until you actually make a profit, company creation process is easy, consequences for failure are very low to inexistant if you’re a startup. And the state is there to help you get all kind of loans by offering guarantees to the banks for you.

Firing people is ridiculously hard in France. I would say quite an important point in case startup experiences anything else but ideal logarithmic growth, actually even in that case (realizing somebody wasn't a great hire after trial period)

What about using consultants, it might be easier to "hire/fire" them?

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#29

Post by DreamyCori »

jlengrand wrote: post #17
DreamyCori wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality always comes back to snag you out of delusion. And reality is that France is not attractive. Without core modifications this kind of initiative will be close to useless. (I'm one of many french engineers who left France to have a decent career)

Same here. I left because France is not attractive indeed. And I also agree core changes are needed to make France attractive for entrepreneurs. At the same time, the points that OP makes are still valid :). For someone that wants to open a company, social aids and healthcare access can matter. Other countries are more open than France is, but it doesn't make France a black hole where nobody can make a good career. T…

You're right that this initiative is one step in the right direction. I don't want my comments perceived as too negative. I'm one of the people singing "Let's make France great again!"

Re: Show HN: How to start a business in France

#30

Post by JPLeRouzic »

roma1n wrote: post #27
JPLeRouzic wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is hard to understand how French people can both have "very low" pensions and then be one of the country that spend the most on pensions as a share of GDP [1], and have retirees richer than working people [2, p5.] Yes that is entirely true, but you do not take in account that: * The median average revenue is around 1200 euros per month! * The pension is financed partly through the debt (one third) * There are ne…

The median salary is around 1800 euros for workers[1]. Not sure where you got the 1200 euros figure from. [1] https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/3135908

No that is not the median salary but average salary:

In addition they are increased as if their were for 1600h/year (équivalent temps plein)

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