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United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

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Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#21

Post by ChuckMcM »

I doubt United will prevail in there efforts. It's "Contract of Carriage"[1] rule 6, sub-section J is where they put in all the verbiage about how they think they should be able to penalize you for avoiding their fare structures. It is pretty bogus and I'd love to see it litigated, to do that you really would have to do this stuff enough to get them to take action against you citing that rule, and then (now that you have standing to sue) you would need to sue them. I would recommend setting this up early because their lawyers haven't yeat put in a mandatory mediation clause to this contract. When they do it will be harder.

Either way, I think they will lose. And when it becomes clear that they can't extract value this way from passengers it will cause ticket prices to change to more accurately reflect actual costs.

[1] Updated 9/27/18 with section 6.J --https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/contract-of-carriage.ht...

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#22

Post by adrr »

StavrosK wrote: post #5

One very interesting thing here is how they're using the credit score system to blackmail people. If this continues, any company can hold you hostage by threatening to ruin your score, without any recourse from you.

They can threaten to ruin your credit. Legally they can't trash your credit and create fake debt.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#23

Post by panarky »

pjc50 wrote: post #3
parliament32 wrote: post #2

It's not clear why exactly the airlines are so upset about this. If the passenger isn't present they can just shoehorn a standby onto the flight, or at least save on fuel costs.

The airlines are losing money by having passengers circumvent the price discrimination.

The airline didn't lose any money.

The airline was paid as agreed for the itinerary.

The seat on the last leg of the flight will be empty, which actually saves the airline money since it will take less fuel to transport less weight.

And the airline can resell that empty seat to a standby passenger and double-dip if they wish.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#24

Post by Someone1234 »

mchannon wrote: post #14
Someone1234 wrote: post #7

I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Plus they're outright wrong that it constitutes "fraud," if for no other reason than the person skipping additional legs didn't profit from it, instead they simply limited UA's ability to further profit off of their travel. If this was "fraud" then any other airline discount or saving would be too. Shop around for the cheapest pric…

> I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Ahh yes, the "known false debts act of 1789". The fact is corporations have throngs of willing stooges who are happy to perjure themselves in trial and assert that the debts weren't false at all. Who's a judge and jury going to believe? The scammer who cheated the poor impoverished airline out of its money, or the well-dressed st…

> Ahh yes, the "known false debts act of 1789".

Fair Credit Reporting Act of 1970:

> Your creditor must not supply information to a CRA that it knows (or should know) is inaccurate. That includes:

> - reporting a debt as charged off when you settled it or paid it in full

> - misstating the balance due

> - reporting late payments when you paid timely

> - listing you as a debtor on an account when you were only the authorized user, or

> - supplying credit information on an account where identity theft was previously reported (or failing to maintain a reasonable procedure for you to report identity theft).

Violations can result in civil damages[0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Reporting_Act#Civi... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Reporting_Act#Furn...

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#25

Post by CoolGuySteve »

moonka wrote: post #8

I'm surprised we haven't seen more companies abuse the credit reporting system like this. Recourse is painful for the customer, and I imagine a non-trivial number of them will just pay off the debt. I'm guessing with the gutting of agencies like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau we'll see a rise in these type of practices.

Falsely damaging someone's reputation in writing is libel. I think if more companies abused the credit rating system, they and the credit bureaus would see a lot more libel claims.

It would even make sense to mechanize these libel claims via a bunch of templates, sort of like how airhelp.com works.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#26

Post by mynameisvlad »

ben1040 wrote: post #11

Sometimes I go to a fast food restaurant and discover that while I don't want fries, it's cheaper to buy the whole combo meal than it is to just buy a burger and drink a la carte. If I buy the combo and throw away the fries, nobody's going to argue that I've cheated Wendy's and owe them for the difference in price. But I'd agree they're still free to refuse me service in the future on grounds of wasting food.

Technically, the equivalent is telling them to "keep the fries" since airlines can then re-sell your ticket or offer it to standby customers.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#27

Post by rconti »

Someone1234 wrote: post #7

I doubt UA would follow through considering it is illegal to submit known false debts. Plus they're outright wrong that it constitutes "fraud," if for no other reason than the person skipping additional legs didn't profit from it, instead they simply limited UA's ability to further profit off of their travel. If this was "fraud" then any other airline discount or saving would be too. Shop around for the cheapest pric…

This is insane on a whole other level, because United profits when you don't get on that 2nd leg.

If they're overbooked, they avoid having to pay to bump someone.

They incur less in fuel costs, as the plane lands in its destination city with a slightly greater fuel load.

Some passenger somewhere has a more pleasant flight because they have an empty seat next to them.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#28

Post by mynameisvlad »

pjc50 wrote: post #3
parliament32 wrote: post #2

It's not clear why exactly the airlines are so upset about this. If the passenger isn't present they can just shoehorn a standby onto the flight, or at least save on fuel costs.

The airlines are losing money by having passengers circumvent the price discrimination.

As already pointed out, the airlines lose no actual money, but you are right in that they lose the theoretical difference between the discriminated price and the one they paid. That's not a legal debt, though.

Re: United Airlines Threatens to Engage Collections for Passengers Who Skip Segments

#30

Post by leelin »

One point in defense of the airlines that people often forget. There are certain taxes and fees the airlines must pay when a passenger flies from A to B. However, the government of location B waives fees for connections flying from A to B to C. That makes sense; the passenger never actually visited B.

Passengers can find a cheaper ticket flying JFK->TPE->HKG and ditching the final leg (carry-on only). However, if an airline "knows" a passenger will skip the final leg, then they are helping the individual evade a legitimate tax.

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