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Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

bbc.com

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Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#21

Post by camgunz »

jamesgagan wrote: post #14

Stop eating animals. Governments are slow to act, but switching to a plant based diet is something you can do right now.

I admit to being tired of this vague moralizing. We're in this mess because of corrupt energy industries and fucked up factory farming on a global scale, not because I like chicken nuggets. There is absolutely zero chance that we avoid global warming because enough people voluntarily switched to a vegetarian diet. It's a non-solution, just like everyone biking, turning their a/c to 85 and heaters to 60, etc etc. It will never, ever happen unless government makes it happen, and I'm sure advocates know it, and I'm therefore forced to conclude it's just some weird eco-shaming.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#22

Post by danieltillett »

btrettel wrote: post #13
danieltillett wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know how much carbon is released to grow the extra food that you use cycling verses what you would use driving? Food production is very energy intensive and the human body very inefficient. You can’t effect the amount of carbon released by adopting a low carbon lifestyle when the price of fossil fuels is above the cost of production. All reducing demand at the margin does is lower the marginal price causi…

https://bicycleuniverse.info/bicycling-wastes-gas/ According to this a "typical" omnivore cyclist produces about 3 times less carbon than a "typical" driver. Vegan and vegetarian are about 4 times less. You can play around with the numbers in the calculator. I think this guy's probably biased towards veganism, but this is what I've seen. I haven't seen a comparison with motorcycles or electric vehicles, or a comparis…

Thanks - as I suspected it is really complex and very dependent on the assumptions.

I would love to cycle more, but I fear for my life riding on roads with traffic. I have seen far too many killed cyclist with my own eyes - in fact when I think about the only dead people I have seen are cyclists and motorcyclists.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#23

Post by plorg »

danieltillett wrote: post #12
btrettel wrote: post #6

I was reading a blog post about problems in academia which said the following in the first paragraph: > There’s a narrative I find kind of troubling, but that unfortunately seems to be growing more common in science. The core idea is that the mere existence of perverse incentives is a valid and sufficient reason to knowingly behave in an antisocial way, just as long as one first acknowledges the existence of those pe…

Does anyone know how much carbon is released to grow the extra food that you use cycling verses what you would use driving? Food production is very energy intensive and the human body very inefficient. You can’t effect the amount of carbon released by adopting a low carbon lifestyle when the price of fossil fuels is above the cost of production. All reducing demand at the margin does is lower the marginal price causi…

The obvious difference is that a human on a bicycle is moving on the order of 10 times less mass than a human in a car. Like my sibling post notes, it could be different for, e.g, a motorcycle, but a cyclist also produces about 0% of the SOx, NOx, or particulate emmissions of those vehicles, whichever is a somewhat different conversation.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#25

Post by anon7429 »

latch wrote: post #5
NegativeLatency wrote: post #2

It’s really disappointing that the political systems we have don’t encourage long term stewardship of our resources. I don’t see any kind of reform happening in the US until negative consequences are felt by a significant chunk of the population.

It's disappointing that such a political system is necessary for individuals to act responsibly, ethically and morally.

Democracy, eg the populist mob, killed Socrates and will likely kill the species too.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#26

Post by dang »

anon7429 wrote: post #25
latch wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing that such a political system is necessary for individuals to act responsibly, ethically and morally.

Democracy, eg the populist mob, killed Socrates and will likely kill the species too.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#27

Post by danieltillett »

plorg wrote: post #23
danieltillett wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know how much carbon is released to grow the extra food that you use cycling verses what you would use driving? Food production is very energy intensive and the human body very inefficient. You can’t effect the amount of carbon released by adopting a low carbon lifestyle when the price of fossil fuels is above the cost of production. All reducing demand at the margin does is lower the marginal price causi…

The obvious difference is that a human on a bicycle is moving on the order of 10 times less mass than a human in a car. Like my sibling post notes, it could be different for, e.g, a motorcycle, but a cyclist also produces about 0% of the SOx, NOx, or particulate emmissions of those vehicles, whichever is a somewhat different conversation.

Well those particulates and gases are still produced in the production and transport of food. If you eat more food then more will have to be grown and transported.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#28

Post by flukus »

danieltillett wrote: post #27
plorg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious difference is that a human on a bicycle is moving on the order of 10 times less mass than a human in a car. Like my sibling post notes, it could be different for, e.g, a motorcycle, but a cyclist also produces about 0% of the SOx, NOx, or particulate emmissions of those vehicles, whichever is a somewhat different conversation.

Well those particulates and gases are still produced in the production and transport of food. If you eat more food then more will have to be grown and transported.

Some of that food could be a carbon sink, depending on how it's grown, how it's transported and where it ends up. With the later it might even get a second life generating electricity.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#29

Post by danieltillett »

flukus wrote: post #28
danieltillett wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well those particulates and gases are still produced in the production and transport of food. If you eat more food then more will have to be grown and transported.

Some of that food could be a carbon sink, depending on how it's grown, how it's transported and where it ends up. With the later it might even get a second life generating electricity.

Yes this is all true, but it makes it really hard to know what the carbon footprint actually is.

Re: Climate report: Scientists politely urge 'act now, idiots'

#30

Post by malloryerik »

camgunz wrote: post #21
jamesgagan wrote: post #14

Stop eating animals. Governments are slow to act, but switching to a plant based diet is something you can do right now.

I admit to being tired of this vague moralizing. We're in this mess because of corrupt energy industries and fucked up factory farming on a global scale, not because I like chicken nuggets. There is absolutely zero chance that we avoid global warming because enough people voluntarily switched to a vegetarian diet. It's a non-solution, just like everyone biking, turning their a/c to 85 and heaters to 60, etc etc. It w…

Shrill messages can and do backfire, but I think there might be a point to add. If we go vegetarian, as an example, we're likely promoting new vegetarian industries which then can create real alternatives for wider and wider groups of people. For example if people start a craze for foods made from kelp and it spreads, then it can become a part of larger government-arranged action.

The same is true for alternative energies.

Meanwhile you'll agree that the consumer is indeed the most important part of any economic activity, and that they often have the most choice, as most corporate managers answer to shareholders who in turn answer to short-term profits.

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