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Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

euractiv.com

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Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#21

Post by maxsilver »

gambiting wrote: post #3

As great as it is, remember that hybrids are exempt. And the law is very lax when it comes to a definition of a hybrid - Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid and could still be sold under this ban. I expect very very soon we'll see this kind of extremely minor electrification coming to all kinds of vehicles, where a t…

> Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid

"Just 1 mile of electric range" is true for most hybrids that don't plug into to charge (from Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc). Obviously more miles would be even better, but this isn't a terrible thing on it's own.

The base non-plug-in Toyota Prius Hybrid has had "just 1 mile of electric range" for over a decade now, that hasn't stopped it from getting 50mpg ratings (a full 50% decrease in emissions from the current average US fleet MPG at ~25mpg).

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#22

Post by jimmaswell »

reacharavindh wrote: post #13

Wonder what it'd do to the resale value of cars even before 2030. Denmark with their famous 150% registration tax already has cars being used much longer than what I've seen in other countries. I'd love to see the 150% tax waived off for 100% electric cars that are not luxury vehicles. Set strict constraints for a common man car, and incentivize it turning electric. Also, think about the charging infrastructure....

I never understood how anyone possibly felt the ridiculously extremist state of affairs of automobile/fuel regulations/taxes/etc in Denmark is appropriate. The rest of Europe isn't that great either but Denmark is one of or the most insane examples (memory isn't clear on if there was another member state that was even worse). One of the things that makes me grateful to live in the USA - owning and operating a car doesn't bankrupt me, especially anything bigger than a clown car with any less than 50mpg.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#23

Post by the8472 »

gambiting wrote: post #3

As great as it is, remember that hybrids are exempt. And the law is very lax when it comes to a definition of a hybrid - Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid and could still be sold under this ban. I expect very very soon we'll see this kind of extremely minor electrification coming to all kinds of vehicles, where a t…

> And in 17 years, every new car in Denmark must be an electric car or other forms of zero-emissions car,” Rasmussen said, implying that hybrids will be phased out in 2035.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#24

Post by brixon »

jstanley wrote: post #16
reacharavindh wrote: post #13

Wonder what it'd do to the resale value of cars even before 2030. Denmark with their famous 150% registration tax already has cars being used much longer than what I've seen in other countries. I'd love to see the 150% tax waived off for 100% electric cars that are not luxury vehicles. Set strict constraints for a common man car, and incentivize it turning electric. Also, think about the charging infrastructure....

Why does it make any difference whether it is a luxury vehicle or not?

Because you need to always look like you want to tax the rich more.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#25

Post by Retric »

gambiting wrote: post #14
phil248 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2019 Range Rover hybrid has an all electric range of 31 miles. Maybe an older model has a 1 mile electric range? That didn't pass the smell test so I had to look it up.

Yeah the new 400e has more range. The original that came out few years ago had only 1 mile range, as mentioned in the brochure: https://www.landrover.com/Images/HYBRID_FAQ_GUIDE_Intreactiv... "How far can my Range Rover Hybrid travel using just the electric motor? When Electric Vehicle mode is activated manually using the EV button, the EV light on the instrument cluster will glow green. The Range Rover Hybrid will d…

That's actually plenty of storage to be useful to a hybrid vehicle. Remember, that battery is always charged by the engine so the trade-off of less weight also means longer range.

The vast majority of the efficiency gains in city driving from a non plug in Hybrid is regenerative breaking. Sure, slowing down across a huge mountain represents a lot of energy, but making stop an go traffic vastly more efficient takes very little storage.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#26

Post by PopeDotNinja »

I went to Denmark last year and spent two weeks driving all over the countryside, and likely would have been difficult to reach with an electric car. Many of the places I visited would not have been accessible via public transit. I'm curious how future generations will reach remote places as we move away from fossil fuels.

BTW, I loved Denmark :)

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#27

Post by ainiriand »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #26

I went to Denmark last year and spent two weeks driving all over the countryside, and likely would have been difficult to reach with an electric car. Many of the places I visited would not have been accessible via public transit. I'm curious how future generations will reach remote places as we move away from fossil fuels. BTW, I loved Denmark :)

I guess the solution is to provide more charging stations, isn't it? Looks pretty straightforward to me.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#28

Post by mtgx »

gambiting wrote: post #3

As great as it is, remember that hybrids are exempt. And the law is very lax when it comes to a definition of a hybrid - Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid and could still be sold under this ban. I expect very very soon we'll see this kind of extremely minor electrification coming to all kinds of vehicles, where a t…

Indeed. Mercedes has already announced that it will "electrify" 300 models over the next decade or so, and I expect at least 280 of those to work exactly as you said, not just for the purpose of exploiting this kind of legislation, but also for marketing purposes ("An electrified car is basically just the same as an electric car, right?").

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#29

Post by dsfyu404ed »

maxsilver wrote: post #21
gambiting wrote: post #3

As great as it is, remember that hybrids are exempt. And the law is very lax when it comes to a definition of a hybrid - Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid and could still be sold under this ban. I expect very very soon we'll see this kind of extremely minor electrification coming to all kinds of vehicles, where a t…

> Range Rover has a model with a whooping 1 mile(!!!) of electric range, but of course it has an electric motor so it qualifies as a hybrid "Just 1 mile of electric range" is true for most hybrids that don't plug into to charge (from Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc). Obviously more miles would be even better, but this isn't a terrible thing on it's own. The base non-plug-in Toyota Prius Hybrid has had "just 1 mile of electr…

This. Think of the battery and electric motor in a hybrid like a caching system that makes the power-train able to use energy a lot more efficiently.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#30

Post by vegardx »

seanalltogether wrote: post #5

Instead of governments announcing bans (I believe france announced a future ban a couple months back), I would rather see these governments committing to only purchasing electric vehicles for all government fleets. Why not put your money were your mouth is and help pump money into the industry via purchasing orders, rather then simply announcing a ban?

Perhaps they do?

In Norway you're going to have a hard time finding a petrol or diesel car that fits the government requirements.

See §5: https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2017-12-11-1995/§5

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