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Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

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Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#21

Post by icebraining »

village-idiot wrote: post #5

Poor UX, poor safety controls. At this stage in the game, these prototype vehicles should absolutely detect whether or not their operators are paying attention, since they’re part of the safety system of the vehicle. Also, did they not learn from Uber’s fatal crash? A sole operator in these vehicles is a terrible idea. One person to monitor road conditions and one person to operate any computer equipment should be th…

these prototype vehicles should absolutely detect whether or not their operators are paying attention

The car did warn the driver with two audio signals, what more should it do?

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#22

Post by lolsal »

I feel like an old man shaking my first at the slow march of inevitable progress - but - this is exactly why 'drive assist' or any other flavor of automated driving that is not 100% automation is not useful to me. If I have to pay attention and babysit piloting the vehicle, I might as well be driving (assuming I'm of sound enough mind and body to actually drive).

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#23

Post by bluGill »

melling wrote: post #14
kalleboo wrote: post #9

It's so sad how these companies are spending billions on developing this technology and then still cheap out on the test drivers by having them drive solo and for too long hours (and presumably at minimum wage)

Yeah, but he found a flaw in the system before it shipped. People will be driving nonstop cross country in autonomous cars. This could easily happen. NYC to LA in 2 days.

More than that, the ability to sleep while going from place to place is a feature. I'm looking forward to going to "grandma's" leaving at bedtime, and whereever we wake up telling the car to stop, and spend the morning exploring some random town in the middle of nowhere. Then a short nap after lunch while going to some other random town in the middle on nowhere for the afternoon, then waking up for breakfast with grandma.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#24

Post by toomuchtodo »

Fricken wrote: post #16
kalleboo wrote: post #9

It's so sad how these companies are spending billions on developing this technology and then still cheap out on the test drivers by having them drive solo and for too long hours (and presumably at minimum wage)

Waymo's vehicle operators make $20 bucks an hour. The driver was about an hour into his shift when he dozed off.

The lack of requirement for driver input is what causes the operator to drift off or fall asleep. The same reason they put test/dummy positive weapon images that aren't physically present in the xray image stream at security checkpoints; to keep the operator alert.

If you have a human overseer in the seat, you want to find ways to continue to keep them engaged even if it isn't necessary for the vehicle's autonomy.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#25

Post by icebraining »

lolsal wrote: post #22

I feel like an old man shaking my first at the slow march of inevitable progress - but - this is exactly why 'drive assist' or any other flavor of automated driving that is not 100% automation is not useful to me. If I have to pay attention and babysit piloting the vehicle, I might as well be driving (assuming I'm of sound enough mind and body to actually drive).

Waymo agrees with you, that's why their custom prototype car (the Firefly) didn't even have a steering wheel.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#27

Post by jillesvangurp »

village-idiot wrote: post #5

Poor UX, poor safety controls. At this stage in the game, these prototype vehicles should absolutely detect whether or not their operators are paying attention, since they’re part of the safety system of the vehicle. Also, did they not learn from Uber’s fatal crash? A sole operator in these vehicles is a terrible idea. One person to monitor road conditions and one person to operate any computer equipment should be th…

Agreed. Long term this should work similar to autopilots in planes. They make a loud noise when disengaged so it is very clear when it stops working for whatever reason. Some modern planes actually take control and engage the autopilot when things get out of hand to recover from dangerous situations.

It seems to me that a self driving car is preferable to having a driver that is asleep, zoned out or dangerously distracted by whatever is happening on their phone or in the care. Many accidents have that as the root cause.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#28

Post by icebraining »

swlkr wrote: post #26

I'm starting to think it might be cheaper to lay down more rail lines or something like Japan. I don't mind driving the last few miles or biking.

You might not mind, but someone who can't drive or bike does.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#29

Post by bryanlarsen »

Pxtl wrote: post #20

That's tricky. So you need to be able to take control of the car quickly in an emergency, but at the same time you want the human pseudodriver to be free to be distracted or drowsy, and so in a state where they could accidentally hit this button.

That would be classified as "Level 3" autonomous, aka "Driver must be available to take over controls". Waymo has publicly stated that it feels that Level 3 autonomous is unsafe and that it's goal is Level 4 "Driver not expected to take control".

Waymo currently has Level 3 cars, which is why they employ safety drivers and haven't made their cars publicly available.

Re: Waymo self-driving car crashed when driver fell asleep and triggered manual mode

#30

Post by icebraining »

melling wrote: post #14
kalleboo wrote: post #9

It's so sad how these companies are spending billions on developing this technology and then still cheap out on the test drivers by having them drive solo and for too long hours (and presumably at minimum wage)

Yeah, but he found a flaw in the system before it shipped. People will be driving nonstop cross country in autonomous cars. This could easily happen. NYC to LA in 2 days.

Nope. Waymo's cars don't have passengers in reach of controls. The Firefly didn't even have pedals or a steering wheel, and on the Pacificas they sit in the back, I believe.
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