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The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

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21–30 of 96 posts

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#21

I was looking for a statement by the "other side", someone in government who could give a justification as to why they're being used. Is it simply because its the "standard" now, and bureaucrats don't want to stick their neck out by getting rid of it? Is the fact that it is a machine that has been around for awhile, regardless of efficacy, give people that much comfort? Or are enough people really that misinformed? I…

There is no good reason. It just gives them the feels. Countless super innocent people get denied, while spies make it through.

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IANAL but what's to prevent the litigating party from immediately filing Not having the money to do so.

Heh, okay that's a fair and valid counterpoint, but entertain the hypothetical-I'm genuinely curious how that could play out if someone took a prospective employer to court following a polygraph that disqualifies them from further interviews.

Probably DQing yourself from future employment consideration.

Prospective employers don’t prefer litigious candidates. (seemingly regardless of merit).

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#24
post #3

Boy, they sure didn't open with a case I could be sympathetic with. Lied to the state police, lied when applying to a city PD, but this time, oh, this time he's telling the truth! My guess is, word gets around, and "inconsistencies" is just the excuse they need. I'm not saying it makes it right, because next it's going to mere coincidence that a black woman had "inconsistencies" when applying. But in this case, I mig…

> Boy, they sure didn't open with a case I could be sympathetic with. Lied to the state police, lied when applying to a city PD, but this time, oh, this time he's telling the truth!

You misunderstood the article. There's no evidence to suggest he lied ever.

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#25
post #4

It was my understanding that polygraph tests were mostly useless and just a way to claim someone is lying through clever use of pseudoscience

They're not useless, but yes, they are a form of trickery. It's a psychological technique that tries to make people who are lying or hiding things more likely to be nervous and more likely to confess (or be led down a line of questioning which eventually reveals new information). The actual results from the machine are pretty much just a red herring, but that doesn't necessarily mean the machines have no valid uses.…

You could say the same thing about homeopathy - they are an effective placebo.

Do you support their use too?

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#26
post #12
post #10

I'm surprised a 1930's era pseudoscience is still hanging around professional law enforcement circles. The optimist in me hopes it's a clever ruse to screen people who simply aren't team fit. The pessimist tells me they're the caliber of people who also think calling in a psychic to help with murder cases. Modern fMRI technologies can tell if people are fabricating stories. There's actual science behind them.

> Modern fMRI technologies can tell if people are fabricating stories. There's actual science behind them I think there was some actual science behind the polygraph too, but just having actual science on poorly informed/motivated participants isn't really enough for tech that will have long term adversaries. I can't recall if 1/3 or 2/3 of myth busters staff could beat the fMRI once prepared and motivated. Initial ex…

Apparently in 3 tries Mythbusters managed to fool the fMRI lie test once. They didn't experiment much with different techniques, I would fully expect success rates to get much worse than that as people get more time to find good techniques for beating the test.

https://mythresults.com/episode93

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#27
post #23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, okay that's a fair and valid counterpoint, but entertain the hypothetical-I'm genuinely curious how that could play out if someone took a prospective employer to court following a polygraph that disqualifies them from further interviews.

Probably DQing yourself from future employment consideration. Prospective employers don’t prefer litigious candidates. (seemingly regardless of merit).

My apologies, I was hoping from the context here that my "how would it play out" question would have implied "how would it play out in court" since the comment that originally got my curiosity pumping spoke directly to hypothetical discrimination lawsuits.

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#28
I once was gassing up at a station, and for whatever reason the card reader on the pump wasn't charging, but would let me pump gas anyways. So me, and everyone else who'd used that pump that day, received a phone call from the police telling me to go pay for the gas. I figured it was just an honest mistake and didn't think anything of it.

Fast forward a bit, to where I am undergoing a polygraph examination for the NSA. The exam made me uncomfortable and nervous, but I thought everything was going well. Except for when my interviewer came back and told me I was showing sensitivity towards the hiding crimes question. WTF? And when they do this, they're just giving you enough rope to see if you hang yourself with it. But I had no idea why (or even if) I was showing sensitivity to this question.

They called me in for a 2nd polygraph, this time I didn't show sensitivity to hiding crimes, and I figured I was good to go.

No. I get called into a 3rd exam (each exam was separated by a couple months, mind you). This time the interviewer told me "You did better at the hiding crimes question than I thought you would" W.T.F.?!?! The interviewer then left the room and came back with a manilla folder, from which he procures a piece paper which he reads that I had a suspected larceny charge back at home. I honestly had no idea what he was talking about until I remembered the gas station incident. But after I try telling him about it, he tells me that he doesn't believe me and that he thinks I stole that gas. This leaves me extremely flustered and the rest of the polygraph was a train wreck.

3 strikes and I'm out, my conditional employment with them was terminated.

What irks me the most though, is that when I got back home I retrieved the larceny report from the court house, and in that document the whole story was laid out and my account of the situation was corroborated. So what the hell? Why throw me through such a ringer?

Fuck the polygraph.

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#29
Getting boxed is always about who gives the test, which also includes what and how questions are asked. That's why you would always prefer some old salty crusty bastard who can see through bullshit vs some young FNG who thinks he's saving the world one box at a time, which is where stories of fully qualified people getting dropped mostly come from.

Re: The Lie Generator: Inside the Black Mirror World of Polygraph Job Screenings

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not useless, but yes, they are a form of trickery. It's a psychological technique that tries to make people who are lying or hiding things more likely to be nervous and more likely to confess (or be led down a line of questioning which eventually reveals new information). The actual results from the machine are pretty much just a red herring, but that doesn't necessarily mean the machines have no valid uses.…

You could say the same thing about homeopathy - they are an effective placebo. Do you support their use too?

I don't support the use of homeopathy, but I don't think that's a great analogy. Polygraphs are used as an interrogation technique, where psychological tricks and deception on the part of law enforcement are "fair game" (we could enter a long discussion as to whether or not deception during interrogations/interviews should be permitted, but regardless, that's the status quo right now).

Trickery and deception when it comes to medicine and personal health are never fair game. I think there's definitely a difference between police telling a suspect "we know you did it" (when they don't actually know) and a doctor telling a patient "take this and you'll feel better" (when the drug actually does nothing).

Also, polygraphs are a little bit more functional than homeopathic medicine: a polygraph can not only induce nervousness, but can also notice it in some cases (even if the nervousness may not be concerned around a particular question and may not necessarily indicate deception and even if there are false positives). This helps create a feedback loop which makes it more powerful than a pure placebo (e.g. a "lie detector machine" you hook someone up to which isn't powered on at all and does literally nothing).

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