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AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

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Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#21

Post by snvzz »

obarthel wrote: post #15
snvzz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use OFS (Original File System, before FFS) which has checksums in every block! Note blocks are <512byte because of that (ouch) and everything else about OFS sucks.

Smaller than 512 bytes? I beg to differ. The file system data structure layout requires a minimum of 512 bytes per block. The Amiga OFS/FFS, etc. file system data structures scale with the block size (block sizes of 512, 1024, .., 65536 bytes are possible). At 256 bytes per block, for example, the directory hash table size would shrink so much that you'd have so many hash collisions that it would be morbidly funny...…

On a separate note, as I understand there's e.g. library updates, are you releasing a NDK and/or documentation for 3.1.4 development?

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#22

Post by zmix »

obarthel wrote: post #14
zmix wrote: post #12

Why 3.1.4 and not 3.9.1 ?

The AmigaOS 3.9 code was largely unavailable for development work. What remained and was availabie is material which was licensed for inclusion in AmigaOS4. What we got here is a mix of the AmigaOS 3.1 code (bug fixes galore, plus enhancements), the 3.5 update, the 3.9 update plus completely new software such as Disk Doctor V2.134 (written from scratch to support large storage devices and all Amiga file system flavou…

Thanks for clarification. And thanks for Term and MagicMenu (and all the other work) ! :)

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#23

Post by zmix »

Annatar wrote: post #13
zmix wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the 21st century, so maybe you should upgrade from 1992 to 2018! That's 26 years! You really want a heavy weight like ZFS (which is a total memory hog, btw., I use it in my server) on Amiga hardware from 1992? You should be happy, that there is such an update to AmigaOS at all ! I understand the enthusiasm. I used an A4000/Cyberstorm060/CyberGfx64 exclusively till 2001. I did not care, that each reboot would tak…

"It's the 21st century, so maybe you should upgrade from 1992 to 2018! That's 26 years!" I did upgrade: 128 MB FAST RAM, 64-bit MC68080 @ ~234 MHz with AMMX SIMD instructions, 16 GB industry grade CF and 8 GB microSDHC. OS 3.9 @ 1300 x 768 x 32-bit color HDMI. "You really want a heavy weight like ZFS (which is a total memory hog, btw., I use it in my server) on Amiga hardware from 1992?" Yes, I do, because as a Solar…

I was referring to your tone, which makes it sound, as it would be the most normal thing in the IT world, to have modern technologies running on a system, that died (most would say) 20+ years ago and what's left, is thanks to some extremely talented Necromantic Wizards ;-)

Anyways, I know that feeling:

http://cd.textfiles.com/amigama/amigama199803/WWW/ctools/www...

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#24

Post by Annatar »

zmix wrote: post #23
Annatar wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's the 21st century, so maybe you should upgrade from 1992 to 2018! That's 26 years!" I did upgrade: 128 MB FAST RAM, 64-bit MC68080 @ ~234 MHz with AMMX SIMD instructions, 16 GB industry grade CF and 8 GB microSDHC. OS 3.9 @ 1300 x 768 x 32-bit color HDMI. "You really want a heavy weight like ZFS (which is a total memory hog, btw., I use it in my server) on Amiga hardware from 1992?" Yes, I do, because as a Solar…

I was referring to your tone, which makes it sound, as it would be the most normal thing in the IT world, to have modern technologies running on a system, that died (most would say) 20+ years ago and what's left, is thanks to some extremely talented Necromantic Wizards ;-) Anyways, I know that feeling: http://cd.textfiles.com/amigama/amigama199803/WWW/ctools/www...

This is Amiga we're discussing here, a computer designed to be almost infinitely upgradable, so yes, I expect it as if it were the most normal thing in the world. Just look at all the new hardware upgrades coming out!

There is even the Amiga reloaded project with a revised A500+ motherboard design coming out, and a new A500-A1200-A4000 hybrid motherboard being designed, so Amiga is far from dead, just very niche.

What hadn't kept pace is the OS: even the most modern AmigaOS 4.1 is far from capabilities of modern operating systems like illumos, and I mean very, very far behind.

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Amiga_reloaded

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#25

Post by obarthel »

snvzz wrote: post #19
obarthel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ROM space is very tight for this release on account of the much larger mass storage drivers (SCSI, IDE) and the integrated OCS/ECS/AGA graphics.library. Commodore was already pushing the limits for the 1994 Kickstart 3.1 in the Amiga 1200 ROM, and it only got worse. The Amiga 4000T ROM would no longer contain workbench.library either (in 1994) because the graphics.library and the SCSI driver took up so much room. The…

>There is no room for workbench.library and icon.library in the 512 KB 3.1.4 ROM. Unfortunately. Understandable. >Only a select few models support these, and the point was to make the 3.1.4 update available to all desktop systems. Nobody is telling you to ditch the 512k rom. It's just it sucks not to have workbench.library and icon.library, when using a system that does maprom with 1mb support. >The Amiga 4000T ROM w…

> Nobody is telling you to ditch the 512k rom. It's just it sucks not to have workbench.library and icon.library, when using a system that does maprom with 1mb support.

The next best thing is to load both the workbench.library and icon.library using the LoadModule command (which is part of the AmigaOS 3.1.4 update, if I remember correctly) and reboot your machine. Both libraries will then remain in memory as if they had been in the ROM. They will survive subsequent warm reboots, but they will consume RAM.

Loading the libraries in this manner can be handled by the Startup-Sequence, for example.

> Maybe try and release romable versions of workbench and icon library?

Both libraries are technically "fit" to go into ROM, if there were enough space available for them to fit ;-) They are "romable".

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#26

Post by obarthel »

snvzz wrote: post #21
obarthel wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smaller than 512 bytes? I beg to differ. The file system data structure layout requires a minimum of 512 bytes per block. The Amiga OFS/FFS, etc. file system data structures scale with the block size (block sizes of 512, 1024, .., 65536 bytes are possible). At 256 bytes per block, for example, the directory hash table size would shrink so much that you'd have so many hash collisions that it would be morbidly funny...…

On a separate note, as I understand there's e.g. library updates, are you releasing a NDK and/or documentation for 3.1.4 development?

The focus of AmigaOS 3.1.4 development work was on fixing bugs, integrating code which so far had been separate (e.g. the mass storage drivers last updated in AmigaOS 3.9) and generally making it easier for Amiga hardware developers to make use of the operating system (e.g. adapt the operating system rather than force the developers to twist their designs).

The AmigaOS 3.9 NDK ("native development kit") is still relevant for the AmigaOS 3.1.4 update.

The 3.1.4 update added new API functionality, but these changes are few and could (= will) be covered separately.

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#27

Post by snvzz »

obarthel wrote: post #26
snvzz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a separate note, as I understand there's e.g. library updates, are you releasing a NDK and/or documentation for 3.1.4 development?

The focus of AmigaOS 3.1.4 development work was on fixing bugs, integrating code which so far had been separate (e.g. the mass storage drivers last updated in AmigaOS 3.9) and generally making it easier for Amiga hardware developers to make use of the operating system (e.g. adapt the operating system rather than force the developers to twist their designs). The AmigaOS 3.9 NDK ("native development kit") is still rele…

I'm looking forward to that. Never been too fond of 3.9 as a target :).

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#28

Post by snvzz »

obarthel wrote: post #25
snvzz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no room for workbench.library and icon.library in the 512 KB 3.1.4 ROM. Unfortunately. Understandable. >Only a select few models support these, and the point was to make the 3.1.4 update available to all desktop systems. Nobody is telling you to ditch the 512k rom. It's just it sucks not to have workbench.library and icon.library, when using a system that does maprom with 1mb support. >The Amiga 4000T ROM w…

> Nobody is telling you to ditch the 512k rom. It's just it sucks not to have workbench.library and icon.library, when using a system that does maprom with 1mb support. The next best thing is to load both the workbench.library and icon.library using the LoadModule command (which is part of the AmigaOS 3.1.4 update, if I remember correctly) and reboot your machine. Both libraries will then remain in memory as if they…

>They will survive subsequent warm reboots, but they will consume RAM.

As long as it's fast ram, it's pretty good for a next best thing. I wasn't aware.

>Both libraries are technically "fit" to go into ROM, if there were enough space available for them to fit ;-) They are "romable".

That's great news. I'm not sure where I heard they weren't. I'm hopeful tools to do that will pop up on Aminet :)

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#29

Post by obarthel »

snvzz wrote: post #28
obarthel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is telling you to ditch the 512k rom. It's just it sucks not to have workbench.library and icon.library, when using a system that does maprom with 1mb support. The next best thing is to load both the workbench.library and icon.library using the LoadModule command (which is part of the AmigaOS 3.1.4 update, if I remember correctly) and reboot your machine. Both libraries will then remain in memory as if they…

>They will survive subsequent warm reboots, but they will consume RAM. As long as it's fast ram, it's pretty good for a next best thing. I wasn't aware. >Both libraries are technically "fit" to go into ROM, if there were enough space available for them to fit ;-) They are "romable". That's great news. I'm not sure where I heard they weren't. I'm hopeful tools to do that will pop up on Aminet :)

> As long as it's fast ram, it's pretty good for a next best thing. I wasn't aware.

The ROM changes which shipped with the AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 updates all exercised the same mechanism by which operating system modules loaded into RAM whose contents would survive a warm reset would supersede the contents of the ROM image.

If I remember correctly, the same tool (LoadModule) had been used then.

Documentation for these technical aspects has always been somewhat lacking I'm afraid... Not everyone wants to trawl the Amiga forums for hints on what is possible and how.

This time, however, there is an official FAQ on the web site of the company which sells the product and further pointers to more information on Amiga forums which cover the AmigaOS 3.1.4 update.

> That's great news. I'm not sure where I heard they weren't. I'm hopeful tools to do that will pop up on Aminet :)

You might want to have a look at Christian Vogelgsang's https://github.com/cnvogelg/amitools collection.

Re: AmigaOS 3.1.4 released

#30

Post by snvzz »

obarthel wrote: post #29
snvzz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They will survive subsequent warm reboots, but they will consume RAM. As long as it's fast ram, it's pretty good for a next best thing. I wasn't aware. >Both libraries are technically "fit" to go into ROM, if there were enough space available for them to fit ;-) They are "romable". That's great news. I'm not sure where I heard they weren't. I'm hopeful tools to do that will pop up on Aminet :)

> As long as it's fast ram, it's pretty good for a next best thing. I wasn't aware. The ROM changes which shipped with the AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 updates all exercised the same mechanism by which operating system modules loaded into RAM whose contents would survive a warm reset would supersede the contents of the ROM image. If I remember correctly, the same tool (LoadModule) had been used then. Documentation for these techn…

> You might want to have a look at Christian Vogelgsang's https://github.com/cnvogelg/amitools collection.

Good stuff.

>AmigaOS 3.5/3.9

Never been a fan of these. I'm glad 3.1.4 took a different direction.

>LoadModule

Was not aware they could load workbench/icon.library, that is all :-)

>This time, however, there is an official FAQ

I read the one in the downloadable archive whole. It's still quite early and i'm sure there'll be much more info everywhere soon :)

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