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Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

nytimes.com

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Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#21

Post by perl4ever »

DINKDINK wrote: post #4

>Mr. Recny asked why an enterprise that required only a few people to run it should be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 500. Why should an enterprise that requires only about 500 people to run it be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 2,000? and other such logic from "the only justified subsidy is my subsidy" camp. >The concerns are part of a broa…

It is certainly true that the social utility of a company is not necessarily proportional to the number of employees, but it's not necessarily proportional to the profits either. A glass repair company that goes around breaking windows could make money without creating net utility. That is what many people see bitcoin as. Now, you can debate and argue about specifics vis-a-vis cryptocurrency, but there's a larger issue that bothers me. Why assume that making money means you are benefiting society, in general? I don't care for the assumption that profit is always evil, but the opposite assumption doesn't make sense either. Individual self-interest works marvelously to advance collective goals, like the cells in our body work together, but cancer and viruses also exist, and the reasons why they multiply and are harmful to a collective are very subtle.

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#22

Post by darawk »

perl4ever wrote: post #21
DINKDINK wrote: post #4

>Mr. Recny asked why an enterprise that required only a few people to run it should be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 500. Why should an enterprise that requires only about 500 people to run it be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 2,000? and other such logic from "the only justified subsidy is my subsidy" camp. >The concerns are part of a broa…

It is certainly true that the social utility of a company is not necessarily proportional to the number of employees, but it's not necessarily proportional to the profits either. A glass repair company that goes around breaking windows could make money without creating net utility. That is what many people see bitcoin as. Now, you can debate and argue about specifics vis-a-vis cryptocurrency, but there's a larger iss…

> Why assume that making money means you are benefiting society, in general?

Because when you make money, someone is paying you for a product or service. When someone chooses to pay you for your product or service, they are expressing a preference for that product or service over the money, and vice versa (you express a preference for the money over the product/service). Which means, that when money is exchanged for a product or service, both parties benefit. Value is created. The utility points of the universe increase.

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#23

Post by bogomipz »

eudora wrote: post #20

Is there any work being done to make Bitcoin not consume all that energy? It's hard to support when it's so wasteful of a critical resource. Are they trying to go proof of stake?

I'm not familiar with "proof of stake", how does that make mining less wasteful in terms of resources?

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#24

Post by darawk »

Retric wrote: post #16
ENGNR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a real need for a currency that’s actually backed by something real, given the amount of silly money sloshing around the system these days Linking a currency to wasted energy isn’t great, but what solution would you put forward? A few countries out there have tried to go back to gold or use their oil but it doesn’t end well for them

> backed by something real Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined. Coins have nothing but belief in their value backing them up and are thus extremely unstable. At the end of the day people need to pay taxes and debts and that’s what gives nation states currency value. As long as the nation does not go on a long ter…

> Which is why USD backed up by the worlds strongest economy are used for vastly more international transactions than all cripto coins combined.

In what sense do you believe USD to be 'backed' by the US economy?

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#25

Post by joejerryronnie »

nyolfen wrote: post #15
badge wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real irony here is that the Bitcoin/Ethereum miners are setting up hardware which runs software designed to maximize inefficiency for the sake of maintaining a system designed for money laundering and tax evasion. Rather than use their equipment for work that's useful to humanity like Folding@Home or BOINC these mining operations are running what amounts to a foundry of space heaters trying to compute a lottery n…

damn, truly fucked up that these people are using their skills and resources to seek profit

So, sarcasm aside, it sounds like you support people using their skills and resources to seek profits mining cryptocurrencies. Do you also support real estate investors using their skills and resources to seek profit in rental properties?

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#26

Post by awt »

perl4ever wrote: post #21
DINKDINK wrote: post #4

>Mr. Recny asked why an enterprise that required only a few people to run it should be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 500. Why should an enterprise that requires only about 500 people to run it be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 2,000? and other such logic from "the only justified subsidy is my subsidy" camp. >The concerns are part of a broa…

It is certainly true that the social utility of a company is not necessarily proportional to the number of employees, but it's not necessarily proportional to the profits either. A glass repair company that goes around breaking windows could make money without creating net utility. That is what many people see bitcoin as. Now, you can debate and argue about specifics vis-a-vis cryptocurrency, but there's a larger iss…

I don't understand how you can compare violation of property rights (breaking windows) to a completely voluntary system such as Bitcoin, the private production and use of which violates no property rights.

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#27

Post by plankers »

eudora wrote: post #20

Is there any work being done to make Bitcoin not consume all that energy? It's hard to support when it's so wasteful of a critical resource. Are they trying to go proof of stake?

Bitcoin is _not_ trying to go proof of stake because proof of work is the most secure consensus algorithm that exists. Proof of stake has some lingering unsolved problems, search for "nothing at stake problem" and "long range attack."

All the energy consumed by bitcoin is a feature, not a bug. The only way to defeat the immutability of the bitcoin blockchain and do naughty things would be to expend _more_ energy than is currently being used (or create a more effecient miner, mass produce it, set up mining farms, all without anybody finding out).

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#29

Post by eli »

plankers wrote: post #28

Love watching people cry about bitcoin miners increasing the overall efficacy of electricity use. If you didn't want people moving in and using your cheap electricity, you shouldn't have made it so cheap! Price stabilization in action.

If you walked into Starbucks every day and took most of the sugar packets so that they're aren't enough for all the other customers, proclaiming "they should've charged $0.10 each!" when caught would probably not earn you much sympathy from the regular customers.

Re: Bitcoin Miners Flock to New York’s Remote Corners, but Get Chilly Reception

#30

Post by SilasX »

badge wrote: post #7
DINKDINK wrote: post #4

>Mr. Recny asked why an enterprise that required only a few people to run it should be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 500. Why should an enterprise that requires only about 500 people to run it be able to drive up the operating costs of a company that employed about 2,000? and other such logic from "the only justified subsidy is my subsidy" camp. >The concerns are part of a broa…

The real irony here is that the Bitcoin/Ethereum miners are setting up hardware which runs software designed to maximize inefficiency for the sake of maintaining a system designed for money laundering and tax evasion. Rather than use their equipment for work that's useful to humanity like Folding@Home or BOINC these mining operations are running what amounts to a foundry of space heaters trying to compute a lottery n…

You could give your money to charity rather than spend it on making yourself happy. That doesn’t mean you’re evil or promoting inefficiency in any meaningful sense.
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