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The iPhones XS

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Re: The iPhones XS

#21

Post by aktau »

One thing that seems suspect about this article is when he mentions that nobody else can put a chip like the neural engine in a phone. He says Google does it in the cloud. I don't think he's tried a Google Pixel (2) device before. Put it in airplane mode and take some (portrait) shots. There are a number of articles talking about the Pixel 2 Visual Core, which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it: https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/05/the-pixel-2s-visual-core-p...

Some basic research would be nice.

Re: The iPhones XS

#22

Post by gammateam »

dman wrote: post #17
gammateam wrote: post #3

I'm very pleased with the point cloud technology called "depth cameras". What was, and is, a gigantic attachment to the xbox is now smaller than my fingernail and there's two of them in the Iphone X series. What I'd like is for greater range and more situations for the algorithmic depth to kick in (ie Instagram's focus camera). My use of exchangeable lens cameras in traditional form factors is about to disappear if I…

What I would like is for a non processed photo to be stored along with every processed photos. I have multiple photos on both the Pixel2 and IPhone where the computational photograhy algorithms got the scene very very wrong. Would have been great to have a non processed fallback in these cases.

that would be good, for now there are apps for that. Your pixel2 should make it easy for any third party camera to be your main camera app.

Re: The iPhones XS

#23

Post by madcowherd »

carloscarnero wrote: post #18

I can't be sure, but I think that there's an error on the 5th photo: the column in the background, between his right temple and his right ear should also be processed.

It also looks like part of the outside edge of the ear got blurred mistakenly.

Re: The iPhones XS

#24

Post by e_ »

aktau wrote: post #21

One thing that seems suspect about this article is when he mentions that nobody else can put a chip like the neural engine in a phone. He says Google does it in the cloud. I don't think he's tried a Google Pixel (2) device before. Put it in airplane mode and take some (portrait) shots. There are a number of articles talking about the Pixel 2 Visual Core, which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it: htt…

Very biased "review", but that's what we expect from him.

I believe he has a Google Pixel 2, but apparently he doesn't use it or didn't do any proper research on it.

It's not the first time he shows ignorance about what companies other than Apple are doing or are capable of doing.

Re: The iPhones XS

#25

Post by saganus »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #19

Hi, camera designer here. There are few issues in this article. "The other explanation I can think of is that this almost certainly isn’t Apple’s own sensor." - Correct, it's a Sony sensor. Apple has been using Sony sensors since they dumped Omnivision back in the iPhone 4 days. "Why isn’t Apple touting this larger sensor?" Maybe because the sensor got smaller in the previous iphones (1/2.5") compared to the iPhones…

What exactly is a "neural image processing chip"?

A cursory search didn't turn up anything simple to understand.

My uninformed guess is that it's a chip that does neural network stuff to offload image processing for antialiasing, scaling and such.

But I would guess they do a lot more.

Could you elaborate a bit?

Seems pretty interesting that my phone might be already using "AI" algos for taking better pictures!

Re: The iPhones XS

#26

Post by Steko »

aktau wrote: post #21

One thing that seems suspect about this article is when he mentions that nobody else can put a chip like the neural engine in a phone. He says Google does it in the cloud. I don't think he's tried a Google Pixel (2) device before. Put it in airplane mode and take some (portrait) shots. There are a number of articles talking about the Pixel 2 Visual Core, which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it: htt…

> which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it

Apple's neural engine shipped in the A11, a few weeks earlier than the Pixel 2.

Re: The iPhones XS

#27

Post by Steko »

saganus wrote: post #25
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #19

Hi, camera designer here. There are few issues in this article. "The other explanation I can think of is that this almost certainly isn’t Apple’s own sensor." - Correct, it's a Sony sensor. Apple has been using Sony sensors since they dumped Omnivision back in the iPhone 4 days. "Why isn’t Apple touting this larger sensor?" Maybe because the sensor got smaller in the previous iphones (1/2.5") compared to the iPhones…

What exactly is a "neural image processing chip"? A cursory search didn't turn up anything simple to understand. My uninformed guess is that it's a chip that does neural network stuff to offload image processing for antialiasing, scaling and such. But I would guess they do a lot more. Could you elaborate a bit? Seems pretty interesting that my phone might be already using "AI" algos for taking better pictures!

These chips, like GPUs, are optimized for parallel processing, but they are also designed for lower precision math which requires less memory and fewer transistors/operation and hence are considerably more power efficient.

Re: The iPhones XS

#28

Post by alphabettsy »

Steko wrote: post #26
aktau wrote: post #21

One thing that seems suspect about this article is when he mentions that nobody else can put a chip like the neural engine in a phone. He says Google does it in the cloud. I don't think he's tried a Google Pixel (2) device before. Put it in airplane mode and take some (portrait) shots. There are a number of articles talking about the Pixel 2 Visual Core, which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it: htt…

> which sounds similar to the neural engine, and predates it Apple's neural engine shipped in the A11, a few weeks earlier than the Pixel 2.

Correct, I believe it wasn’t enabled when shipped on the Picel 2. It was sometime later.

Maybe he’s ignorant there, but I think the point should’ve been that outside of Google nobody else is doing the same on android.

Re: The iPhones XS

#29

Post by dang »

mankash666 wrote: post #12
macintux wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is really not the appropriate forum for this sort of straw man hyperbole.

And fawning opinion pieces masquerading as reviews, fully intent on indoctrinating your average HN reader, is? When did HN become Apple's blog?

Would you please stop posting ranty comments to HN? You've been doing it a lot lately, and crossing into incivility too.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The iPhones XS

#30

Post by kartickv »

Steko wrote: post #27
saganus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is a "neural image processing chip"? A cursory search didn't turn up anything simple to understand. My uninformed guess is that it's a chip that does neural network stuff to offload image processing for antialiasing, scaling and such. But I would guess they do a lot more. Could you elaborate a bit? Seems pretty interesting that my phone might be already using "AI" algos for taking better pictures!

These chips, like GPUs, are optimized for parallel processing, but they are also designed for lower precision math which requires less memory and fewer transistors/operation and hence are considerably more power efficient.

So it's just a GPU optimised for half-floats and/or integers?

I remember reading that it's optimised for matrix calculations. Is that true? If so, what is it about matrix calculations that makes a GPU not the most optimised for this task?

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