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Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

bloomberg.com

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Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#21

Post by justtopost »

dbcurtis wrote: post #16
poulsbohemian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered how much of this is hubris or fear vs. physics. What I mean is - are people in say, icy and snowy climates actually better drivers, able to adjust to the conditions, or are they fooling themselves? Likewise, the person going exceptionally slow and cautiously - are they misjudging the actual risk of inclement weather, relative to an actual scientific judgement? It certainly feels like humans become…

I don’t think they are qualitatively “better drivers”. But they are more experienced at certain things. When I lived in Minnesota, I got lots of practice driving in snow and ice and rain. Now in NorCal, not so much :) Its a skill. You get better with practice. The person going slow probably just hasn’t had enough practice yet with the conditions. Going slow is probably a good choice for them. Am I a better driver ove…

I think auto racing has priven there are most certainly qualitively 'better drivers' adjusted for training and experince.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#22

Post by singingboyo »

dbcurtis wrote: post #16
poulsbohemian wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered how much of this is hubris or fear vs. physics. What I mean is - are people in say, icy and snowy climates actually better drivers, able to adjust to the conditions, or are they fooling themselves? Likewise, the person going exceptionally slow and cautiously - are they misjudging the actual risk of inclement weather, relative to an actual scientific judgement? It certainly feels like humans become…

I don’t think they are qualitatively “better drivers”. But they are more experienced at certain things. When I lived in Minnesota, I got lots of practice driving in snow and ice and rain. Now in NorCal, not so much :) Its a skill. You get better with practice. The person going slow probably just hasn’t had enough practice yet with the conditions. Going slow is probably a good choice for them. Am I a better driver ove…

It's also local, not just general snow/ice/rain. I can figure out where ice will probably be here. If I go north into the interior where it's colder, not quite so humid, and snow collects over longer periods? Not a chance - I don't know the local weather, what patterns there are, what the road maintenance is like, etc.

Same deal for where the rain will be bad, where I might need to worry about hydroplaning, etc.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#23

Post by threeseed »

viburnum wrote: post #10

Or construction, or detours, or cops directing traffic ...

I'm still curious about street signs.

Can any self driving car read parking signs because it's not like there is some API for when/where you can park or drop passengers off.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#24

Post by scj »

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art.

In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well as the incline.

I don't want to share the road with self-driving cars in winter for a long time.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#25

Post by svachalek »

threeseed wrote: post #23
viburnum wrote: post #10

Or construction, or detours, or cops directing traffic ...

I'm still curious about street signs. Can any self driving car read parking signs because it's not like there is some API for when/where you can park or drop passengers off.

Waymo for one definitely reads signs, but I'm not sure about those. Lots are written in ways that the average adult human can't decipher.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#26

Post by x3n0ph3n3 »

kxrm wrote: post #18
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn’t sensing, it’s decision-making.

The trolley problem is a tough one.

It has nothing to do with the trolley problem. The trolley problem is a headline-grabbing non-problem in the actual design of driverless cars.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#27

Post by ocdtrekkie »

scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

Variables I can think of that change:

- Lane lines cease to be a thing, even if you can see them, you're better off not following them

- Stoplights also mostly become a guideline, it's sometimes safer to run them than spin out

- Signage or signalling may or may not be visible at all

- Other cars or pedestrians may or may not be visible at all even in daylight

- Your stopping distance can effectively change every few feet

- A foot of snow accumulation may be transferred from the roof of the car in front of you to the windshield of your car with little to no warning

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#28

Post by throwawayjava »

scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I am literally incapable of driving in the snow without substantial software assistance, and that's true for literally every other human I know.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#29

Post by throwawayjava »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #27
scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

Variables I can think of that change: - Lane lines cease to be a thing, even if you can see them, you're better off not following them - Stoplights also mostly become a guideline, it's sometimes safer to run them than spin out - Signage or signalling may or may not be visible at all - Other cars or pedestrians may or may not be visible at all even in daylight - Your stopping distance can effectively change every few…

Of these, the following are attributable to "static variables become dynamic" (and highly nonlinear at that...):

- Your stopping distance can effectively change every few feet

- A foot of snow accumulation may be transferred from the roof of the car in front of you to the windshield of your car with little to no warning

The following are hard planning problems:

- Lane lines cease to be a thing, even if you can see them, you're better off not following them

- Stoplights also mostly become a guideline, it's sometimes safer to run them than spin out

But these are just damn hard and probably the true limiting factors:

- Signage or signalling may or may not be visible at all

- Other cars or pedestrians may or may not be visible at all even in daylight

But I'm not an expert on perception so... maybe that's my bias showing.

Re: Self-Driving Cars Can Handle Neither Rain nor Sleet nor Snow

#30

Post by njarboe »

scj wrote: post #24

Driving in dry / warm conditions is simple mechanics. Driving in snow and ice is an art. In snow and ice, variables that are typically constant or static become dynamic. Formally dynamic variables now become multi-variable equations. For example: travelling down a hill normally requires dynamically factoring for the extra speed due to the incline. Under blizzard conditions you have to factor ice/snow volume, as well…

Or most people. If it is actually blizzard conditions, one should have a very serious reason to be on the road. If not, stay at home instead of driving. Snow days are called for schools. Maybe work in general also?
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