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Subject: Airbnb (2011)

paulgraham.com

21–30 of 165 posts

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#21

This is bullshit. I fund my startup by consulting 1-2 months per year at 40k/month. Zero people think it is impressive. But $25k of Obama cereal makes a better story.

2008 Democratic National Convention was 10 years ago. At the time, startups, as we know them today, were a rarity. Funding yourself to start one, even more so. Hacker News itself was only 1 year-old.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#22
Something I often notice when people complain about AirBNB being a problem in their city- Their city has 'peaked' like a star Quarterback in High school.

In my city which is experiencing growth, I find my AirBnB guests are often business travelers who are infulencers in their respected communities. There are some exceptions like college kids on summer vacation trying to hook up away from their parents house- but mostly business people.

I see complaints from Europeans about Tourism, but that should be a reflection on the achievements of their ancestors rather than the achievements of the current and recent generations.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#23
post #2

Airbnb, like Uber, took advantage of regulatory inefficiencies instead of market inefficiencies. The model is do something (in the minds of regulators) illegal, quickly enough that you can become large enough to get a seat at the table when the regulations are reworked. The counter example to these companies are the ones that quickly raised capital to dump scooters on public streets before they could be shut down by…

Great observation.

> The counter example to these companies are the ones that quickly raised capital to dump scooters on public streets before they could be shut down by cities.

I live in NYC, and I’m frequently in Westchester (the county immediately north of NYC, for those not familiar with New York). There’s been a large influx of Lime bikes in the past several months. My opinion on Lime - the bike/scooter company - has quickly evolved from idle curiosity, to weak dislike, to outright disdain. That evolution started happening when I saw Lime bikes being parked in arbitrary places that blocked pedestrian foot traffic, but I think the straw that broke the camel’s back was when someone parked a Lime bike directly in the spot I usually place my garbage.

Sometimes the hustle of skirting regulation seems to be a net positive. Company culture notwithstanding, I’m happy overall that Uber exists as a concept. I don’t have a savvy opinion about their future, but I enjoy Uber rides significantly more than yellow cabs. Likewise I’ve stayed in Airbnbs before and enjoyed the experience, though I wouldn’t say it’s changed my day to day life as much.

But other times it seems like companies are being actively negligent in their awareness of the legislations they’re flippantly ignoring and the consequences of doing so. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for a system being disrupted which depends on the artificial scarcity of taxi medallions. On the other hand I find it very frustrating when my sidewalk or park is “disrupted” by a random bright green bike that yells at you if you try to move it without paying.

I wish there were a way to easily categorize the behavior of companies - between those whose cavalier approach to disruption mostly impacts existing incumbents, and those whose approach is actually a pain to end users. Sometimes the laws are legitimately outdated or very inefficient, and disregarding them vastly improves the user experience. But other times - like with Lime - it feels as though companies are pointing to those examples so they can get away with a “product” that automatically opts you into a “new normal” just because a subset of people use it.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#24
post #9

I wish AirBnB took more responsibility for the damage they are doing to the NYC housing market

What is your proposal?

In Edinburgh there's a similar discussion, and the proposals I think have value:

1) Tourist tax on all hotel rooms, including AirBnB. Initially a fairly small amount. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/27/edinburgh-le...

2) For whole-unit owner-not-present lets, require planning permission for change of use. You wouldn't be allowed to run a woodworking business in your apartment that inflicted noise on your neighbours, so the same should apply to turning it into a hotel.

3) Keep upgrading the transport infrastructure. The newly rebuilt Border railway is a victim of its own instant success - someone should start the process of widening it to two tracks immediately so it'll be ready in 20 years. And so on.

(Before someone says "build houses", there is a lot of family home construction going on in the outskirts. It's the historic centre that's under consideration, and "demolish the existing 4-6 story historic dwellings and replace them with much taller residential buildings" is an absolute non-starter)

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#25
> Our two junior team members were enthusiastic

> The three "old guys" didn't get it

I think that's the main reason why they passed on Airbnb. The VCs themselves were too far away from the initial target market, and could neither relate with the "airbed and breakfast" user base, nor see how it could scale.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#26
post #9

I wish AirBnB took more responsibility for the damage they are doing to the NYC housing market

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all.

For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time.

I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception.

Perhaps living in a single place in perpetuity (especially near the center of a major metro/cosmopolitan hub) is just not as sustainable in an environment where smallish organizations like AirBnb (or the decentralized versions to come) can easily subvert statutory attempts to force a particular market outcome.

Also, in NYC in particular, the role of "rent control" is worth taking into account.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#27

Something I often notice when people complain about AirBNB being a problem in their city- Their city has 'peaked' like a star Quarterback in High school. In my city which is experiencing growth, I find my AirBnB guests are often business travelers who are infulencers in their respected communities. There are some exceptions like college kids on summer vacation trying to hook up away from their parents house- but most…

Right. New York, London, Paris and Tokyo have all "peaked".

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#28
post #26
post #9

I wish AirBnB took more responsibility for the damage they are doing to the NYC housing market

Well, we don't all agree that the changes are tantamount to "damage", first of all. For my part, having lived much of my adult life in New Paltz, AirBnb has greatly increased the availability of NYC housing for me, as I typically only live in NYC for 3-10 days at a time. I can understand that, if your desire is to live there perpetually for years, you might have a different perception. Perhaps living in a single plac…

> living in a single place in perpetuity

Christ. Hotdesking for houses. This is already the reality for a lot of precariously-housed or non-street-homeless people. It's especially bad for children and will cost them grades at school when moving frequently.

Re: Subject: Airbnb (2011)

#29
post #11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's some truth that these guys dodge/ignore/lobby down regulations, but there's this narrative now that that's all they do. Being able to flag a taxi through an app is amazing, so is being able to rent a flat from a stranger with confidence that it will be give and work out. Regulation arbitrage is only a fraction of their value, and the regulations are often just rent seeking by those with power. Insane…

At least in Europe there were apps to call a taxi and sites to book vacation homes before either Uber or AirBnB came over. But sure ruthlessly minimising personnel responsibilities and costs can be another "value".

As someone currently living in a German area with almost no Uber service, mytaxi (the equivalent Uber-like taxi app) is inferior to and much less reliable and functional than Uber and Lyft.
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