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UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

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Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#21

Post by arethuza »

theBobBob wrote: post #4
pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

The ECHR is completely separate from the EU so no matter what way the actual Brexit goes, they will still be a member of the ECHR. Whether they might want to leave that as well is another matter.

All people hear are "European" and "Court" and assume its part of the EU and Brexit means the end of that so we can get back to torturing and executing like the Good old Days...

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#23

Post by vuln »

rezeroed wrote: post #22

Anjem Choudary is currently in the news. With the likes of him and his supporters I'm not sure I expect much else. I'd prefer it wasn't done, but even with that we still have bombs and vehicle rampages. What are the alternatives?

Just be more vigilant.

Sadiq Khan has said he believes the threat of terror attacks are “part and parcel of living in a big city” and encouraged Londoners to be vigilant to combat dangers.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#24

Post by jaredmosley »

maze-le wrote: post #11
monkeynotes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising to find that the ECHR does not consider same-sex marriage a human right.

>> Convention for the Protection of Human Rights >> Article 14 – Prohibition of discrimination: >> The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. [0] Granted, its not abo…

I don't see anything about sexual orientation, just sex which would be about being male/female (possibly transexual depending on the interpretation?).

[Edit] There is this, which seems to leave it to the nations:

>>Article 12 – Right to marry

>> Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#25

Post by soren_dahl »

pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

> There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture ... the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland

ECHR found in favour of the UK recently: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/11/echr-judges-...

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#26

Post by monkeynotes »

maze-le wrote: post #11
monkeynotes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's surprising to find that the ECHR does not consider same-sex marriage a human right.

>> Convention for the Protection of Human Rights >> Article 14 – Prohibition of discrimination: >> The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. [0] Granted, its not abo…

How does Russia remain a signatory?

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#28

Post by daveFNbuck »

jaredmosley wrote: post #24
maze-le wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Convention for the Protection of Human Rights >> Article 14 – Prohibition of discrimination: >> The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this Convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status. [0] Granted, its not abo…

I don't see anything about sexual orientation, just sex which would be about being male/female (possibly transexual depending on the interpretation?). [Edit] There is this, which seems to leave it to the nations: >>Article 12 – Right to marry >> Men and women of marriageable age have the right to marry and to found a family, according to the national laws governing the exercise of this right.

Discriminating against sexual orientation isn't possible without discriminating against sex. A woman is allowed to marry a man, but a man is not.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#29

Post by pjc50 »

rezeroed wrote: post #22

Anjem Choudary is currently in the news. With the likes of him and his supporters I'm not sure I expect much else. I'd prefer it wasn't done, but even with that we still have bombs and vehicle rampages. What are the alternatives?

The key difference is between "surveil known idiots like Choudary" versus "surveil everyone then try to find terrorism by keyword match". The latter is not only unlawful and unjust but produces a huge number of false positives.

Re: UK’s mass surveillance regime violated human rights law, finds ECHR

#30

Post by Quanttek »

soren_dahl wrote: post #25
pjc50 wrote: post #2

I have a suspicion that at least part of the drive for Brexit comes from the determination of the British security services to preserve their last little island of unaccountable Empire. There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture, "extraordinary rendition", the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland, and (repeatedly) over mass surveillance. One former "M", Richard Dearlove, is an overt Brexit campaigner. (…

> There have been conflicts with ECHR over torture ... the treatment of Republicans in Northern Ireland ECHR found in favour of the UK recently: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/11/echr-judges-...

However, note that the ECHR basically redefined torture in Selmouni v France, stating that the standards for torture can increase over time as we advance. The convention is a "living instrument which must be interpreted in the light of present-day condition"
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