Why Can’t Apes Talk? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#21

Post by srean » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:28 AM UTC

murukesh_s wrote: post #18

srean wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they…

Please don't drag politics into HN.. I know you can link anything to a ideology or government and start bashing it. let's not do that.

Nothing to do with politics. Everything to do with rationality. We need the likes of James Randi by the hordes here in India, especially when our own are getting bumped off frequently lately.

> I know you can link anything to a ideology

By the way I am not linking 'anything' tenuous, these are direct video quotes from the country's leadership -- the prime minister of India, and other ministers

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#22

Post by blattimwind » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:38 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #16

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

I wonder if multiple talking species can possibly coexist, or if one of them inevitably ends up destroying it's competitors.

Given the problems between human races , I'd say the latter.

Humans aren't divided into races.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#23

Post by krapp » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:40 AM UTC

codr4 wrote: post #6

amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

Many occult texts claim that the monkeys of today are a result of back crossing human DNA into monkey species long, long ago; and that they have been in regression ever since, turning less human with time.

I'm not aware of any occult texts which claim this, much less of "many." Can you specify?

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#24

Post by close04 » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

murukesh_s wrote: post #20

amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

OMG, seriously, I am a Hindu and I don't believe apes did talk or we were flying around in pushpak vimanas. Anything that is described in mythology is mythology. Please enjoy reading it and read it to our kids, but tell them that it's a story. On the other hand if you want to do some solid work on bringing credibility to these mythical stuff mentioned in the stories, please do scientific research and try to back it w…

> Otherwise we will become a laughing stock in front of the scientific community

All peoples have mythology and legends. Very rarely does this create the expectation that those stories are fact. Religion in general being one of those major exceptions. And regular people believe all kinds of "unbelievable" stuff anyway. So I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as scientists don't start claiming (all?) mythology is science.

Greek mythology had a huge influence on many things in every field you can imagine but nobody really thinks it has more than maybe a grain of truth. Certainly not a basis for science.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#25

Post by vbuwivbiu » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:46 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #16

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

I wonder if multiple talking species can possibly coexist, or if one of them inevitably ends up destroying it's competitors.

Given the problems between human races , I'd say the latter.

races are a mythical artifact from Victorian times

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#26

Post by close04 » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:51 AM UTC

codr4 wrote: post #8

wafflesindeed wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also equally hard to trust give it's based on Hindu scripture, and the Wikipedia article itself states that they're considered mythical creatures.

So how is trusting authority working out for you so far? It's a piece of the puzzle, these stories come from somewhere. The general idea is to use your brain to put the pieces together.

> these stories come from somewhere

A very rich imagination? It's so easy to see something perfectly normal and imagine a whole new world around it. Even more so if at the time there is no "rational" explanation for it.

A three headed malformed dog? It must be the monster guarding the entrance to Hell.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#27

Post by close04 » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 9:54 AM UTC

blattimwind wrote: post #22

amelius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the problems between human races , I'd say the latter.

Humans aren't divided into races.

Of course we do: car races, bike races, but also human races yes. You may be confusing race and (sub)species.

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#28

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #16

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

I wonder if multiple talking species can possibly coexist, or if one of them inevitably ends up destroying it's competitors.

Given the problems between human races , I'd say the latter.

Some say that bonobo apes are layed back and less aggressive than chimps, but others say that in captivity they behave very differently than in the wild. Go figure ...

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#29

Post by wasd884 » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 10:38 AM UTC

I read this book not long ago:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Next-Kin-Conversations-Chimpanzees-...

And in it the author (who spent decades working with and teaching chimps) concludes that chimps have the intelligence to talk but not the vocal chords. They can understand humans talking (in the same way that a dog can understand verbal commands) but they cannot do much besides grunt or hoot back.

However when you change the conversation method to something else (such as sign languge) chimps can talk back exceedingly well. In the book mentioned above the author has video proof that the chimps can talk to humans (and each other) at the level of a two to four year old child.

This is the main chimp in the book:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washoe_(chimpanzee)

This doesn't seem to just apply to chimps either. Gorillas (and other large apes) can do the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)

Re: Why Can’t Apes Talk?

#30

Post by eklavya » Mon, Sep 10, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #14

amriksohata wrote: post #4

Hindus believes apes did talk at some point, or atleast one species existed that did talk. They were called Vanara. They no longer exist but this literature might point to some species that are now extinct, no fossilised evidence though would be hard to guage from fossils. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanara

Under the aegis of, Narendra "Ganesha is proof Hindus knew plastic surgery in vedic times" Modi, many self appointed spokesperson of what Hindu's believe in, have come out of the woodwork. They are the western analogue of humans riding on flying dinosaurs. Its the same phenomena. Now, we have our own Ku Klux Klan -- the cow rakshak's who are on a murderous spree with an implicit promise from the government that they…

Those people saying the same things were always there. They just get more news time nowadays.

As long as the scientific progress is not hampered, I don't really care what the PM or some enthusiasts believe in. I think it's as harmless as people believing/not believing in God.