Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#21

Post by AlexCoventry » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:03 AM UTC

narrator wrote: post #17

chaostheory wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TypeScript ( https://www.typescriptlang.org/ ) is a good starting point. If you use nestjs ( http://nestjs.com/ ), it has dependency injection as well. Pairs with Angular nicely.

I've worked some in Typescript and I like it. In fact, it looks like it's going to be the next great enterprise language that's not Java or .Net. Am I delusional?

I like it compared to javascript, but I think it would be crazy to use it for backend work. I think making typescript happy probably saved me more time than it cost, but it's pretty janky, even compared to similar type systems like mypy. The ability to lie about types caused me quite a bit of confusion, with some libraries, especially immutable.js.

Next time I want to develop a frontend system, I think I'll try reasonml.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#22

Post by kodablah » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:10 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #3

Will be interesting once Graal is released. I've found it be at least 30% faster than the existing JDKs around for Scala development. Others have found similar results: https://medium.com/graalvm/compiling-scala-faster-with-graal...

Surely it's no coincidence that, as Oracle removes differences between its JDK and OpenJDK, that they are throwing their weight behind this non-community project, with an enterprise version. Between sunsetting community owned Nashorn in favor of Graal solution to giving tools to OpenJDK presumably with fewer of their own maintainers, the resource shift is clear. Not that it's wrong or even nefarious, but devs need to realize who they're getting in to bed with when building a reliance on the tech.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#23

Post by exabrial » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:17 AM UTC

This is great! Competition breeds excellence; I'm glad we're going to have a lot of new distributions.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#24

Post by exabrial » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:21 AM UTC

georgewfraser wrote: post #2

Why would a company pay for "commercial support" of OpenJDK from IBM? I have used Java for 15 years and I don't know what "support" for a JDK would mean.

Some companies fire all their workers in hopes offshoring is a magical bullet or let their top knowledge owners leave the organization. As such, they hurl money at the problem to try and cover their incompetence. In these cases Oracle had elected to receive.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#25

Post by exabrial » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

samueldavid wrote: post #18

can we fork OpenJDK?

Yes.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#26

Post by Bjartr » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:37 AM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #25

samueldavid wrote: post #18

can we fork OpenJDK?

Yes.

Without getting sued by Oracle?

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#27

Post by exabrial » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:43 AM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #26

exabrial wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

Without getting sued by Oracle?

To my knowledge that'd be the first [complete] test of GPL by the legal system, which is also a great outcome.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#28

Post by J-Kuhn » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 4:46 AM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #26

exabrial wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

Without getting sued by Oracle?

That's something nobody can be sure it won't happen.

OpenJDK is open source (GPL2 + classpath exception).

"Java" otoh is a trademark.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#29

Post by pard68 » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

georgewfraser wrote: post #2

Why would a company pay for "commercial support" of OpenJDK from IBM? I have used Java for 15 years and I don't know what "support" for a JDK would mean.

The decision makers are not programmers. The people making the choices on software in an enterprise are MBAs who know next to nothing about software and so they need some "insurance".

Look at the tech founded enterprises, they do not go the tradition enterprise software route. Why? Their leadership came from a developer background and not an MBA one.

Re: Time to look beyond Oracle's JDK

#30

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Sep 09, 2018, 5:38 AM UTC

jake_the_third wrote: post #20

pvg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is clear that one can't work on the Java platform without infringing Oracle's IP. That's a pretty extreme interpretation. Most people aren't trying to ship Java-compatible runtimes, as Google did,

I think it's a reasonable interpretation and I agree with GP. APIs used to be seen as fair use and a way to compete, in the similar way to how IBM-compatibles are seen. However, when it became clear to Oracle that there is money to be had, they changed the very definition of copyright to get their fill. What's to say they wont mutate some other aspect of IP law in the future just to make you liable like they did with…

Google had the opportunity to buy Sun after screwing it up and preferred not to.

"Triangulation 245: James Gosling"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYw3X4RZv6Y&feature=youtu.be...

If IBM had not given up to buy Sun, I am pretty sure they would have done likewise.

Plenty of JVM vendors are selling their versions without getting into trouble by playing by the rules.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#...