Live data from Hacker News

The Case Against Delaware (2002)

newrepublic.com

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#21

It's not unprecedented. Only a few miles north, New Jersey basically ruined I-95 for everyone who lives above Philly. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-20/after-60-... DE and NJ aren't really suitable states, they bring zero benefit as a separate entity from their neighbors. Disclaimer: I live in Philadelphia. Also, fuck Dallas.

What a frustrating article! It doesn't explain anything about why the highway was opposed, how the battle played out, etc.

The "old" map shows I-95 just ending, and doesn't show where it resumes. The most obvious thing the map should do given the story is show what the old path was and what the new one is, and it doesn't do that! The second most obvious would be showing Mercer County, which is blamed in the article for blocking the highway, but guess what, it doesn't show that either.

It sounds like there is an interesting story here, but that article utterly fails at telling it.

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#22
post #2

The article makes a case against states competing with one another. I'd argue that competition is a very good thing in this case.

Yes. When governments compete, you win. When you're stuck with only one option, you're more likely to overpay. Especially in a large popular state that is difficult to get away from in more ways than one.

>Especially in a large popular state that is difficult

I agree, and states in the US being too big is the root cause of the headache.

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#23
post #6

If you're not from the northeast, the fact that Delaware is the state of incorporation for so many companies is a huge pain point when bankruptcy is involved. For example, why should a company who exclusively does business within 200 miles of their headquarters be able to file bankruptcy thousands of miles away? Is that the justice intended by our court system? Any parties involved (suppliers, employees who are still…

Would you suggest that a company must operate close to where it's registered?

How is it going to work with companies that operate across several states, and gradually focus on more on other states than the place of the original incorporation? Can they even close a branch in the state of the incorporation?

How important the convenience of the bankruptcy process is compared to other processes related to a company?

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#24

>making my way down I-95 in a rental truck...I screeched to a halt in front of what turned out to be a two-hour backup in Delaware. Never having driven down the East Coast, I at first assumed the traffic jam...But as my truck crept forward I saw it was no accident at all but a deliberate obstruction—specifically, a tollboth on the Delaware Turnpike. Um...I-95 and the Delaware turnpike are not the same roadway. Someho…

> I-95 and the Delaware turnpike are not the same roadway.

Yes, they are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_95_in_Delaware#Dela...

I personally have traveled the stretch of I-95 the article mentions hundreds of times, traveling between the DC area and relatives in Philadelphia, going back to the 1970s. It has always been the Delaware Turnpike.

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#25
post #16

>making my way down I-95 in a rental truck...I screeched to a halt in front of what turned out to be a two-hour backup in Delaware. Never having driven down the East Coast, I at first assumed the traffic jam...But as my truck crept forward I saw it was no accident at all but a deliberate obstruction—specifically, a tollboth on the Delaware Turnpike. Um...I-95 and the Delaware turnpike are not the same roadway. Someho…

Also, when was this? I drove that stretch every other week when I lived in Wilmington, and never hit a jam. Was this pre-Speedpass?

> Was this pre-Speedpass?

It was before Delaware added fast through lanes for EZPass, so that only people paying cash for the toll have to go through the booths.

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#26
post #21

It's not unprecedented. Only a few miles north, New Jersey basically ruined I-95 for everyone who lives above Philly. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-20/after-60-... DE and NJ aren't really suitable states, they bring zero benefit as a separate entity from their neighbors. Disclaimer: I live in Philadelphia. Also, fuck Dallas.

What a frustrating article! It doesn't explain anything about why the highway was opposed, how the battle played out, etc. The "old" map shows I-95 just ending, and doesn't show where it resumes. The most obvious thing the map should do given the story is show what the old path was and what the new one is, and it doesn't do that! The second most obvious would be showing Mercer County, which is blamed in the article f…

There are some good maps showing the changes here:

http://www.raymondcmartinjr.com/njfreeways/Interstate_95_Gap...

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#27
post #21

It's not unprecedented. Only a few miles north, New Jersey basically ruined I-95 for everyone who lives above Philly. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-20/after-60-... DE and NJ aren't really suitable states, they bring zero benefit as a separate entity from their neighbors. Disclaimer: I live in Philadelphia. Also, fuck Dallas.

What a frustrating article! It doesn't explain anything about why the highway was opposed, how the battle played out, etc. The "old" map shows I-95 just ending, and doesn't show where it resumes. The most obvious thing the map should do given the story is show what the old path was and what the new one is, and it doesn't do that! The second most obvious would be showing Mercer County, which is blamed in the article f…

Wikipedia has a decent summary of the history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_95_in_New_Jersey#Hi...

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#28

>making my way down I-95 in a rental truck...I screeched to a halt in front of what turned out to be a two-hour backup in Delaware. Never having driven down the East Coast, I at first assumed the traffic jam...But as my truck crept forward I saw it was no accident at all but a deliberate obstruction—specifically, a tollboth on the Delaware Turnpike. Um...I-95 and the Delaware turnpike are not the same roadway. Someho…

[deleted]

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#29
post #17

Most of you focused on iteration and entrepreneurship should appreciate Delaware simply for its incorporation status alone. Why does everyone incorporate in Delaware do you ask? Is it some tax break or something purely financial, as most people guess? Nope. It's because Delaware put a stake in the ground a LONG time ago and said that they want to be the experts at dealing with business law. So much so that they have…

Efficient business law and registration is very important. It's practically the secret ingredient of the "Anglosphere". Similarly the UK and Ireland have a big advantage in ease of company registration compared to the average EU country. Estonia have made a deliberate effort to copy this. The book The Other Path has a fantastic account of how improving business law was a key ingredient in stabilising Peru and defeati…

This and trust, which... derives from good law and good courts.

Everywhere else in the world everything must be in triplicate at the very least.

Re: The Case Against Delaware (2002)

#30

Most of you focused on iteration and entrepreneurship should appreciate Delaware simply for its incorporation status alone. Why does everyone incorporate in Delaware do you ask? Is it some tax break or something purely financial, as most people guess? Nope. It's because Delaware put a stake in the ground a LONG time ago and said that they want to be the experts at dealing with business law. So much so that they have…

> You can literally incorporate your business in 15 minutes or less. Try doing that in your home state.

According to https://corp.delaware.gov/faqs/, their expedited service offers 1 hour, 2 hour, same day, and next day service. I didn't see anything there about how long regular service takes, but according to lawyers who answered a question about this [1] on Quora, it is about a week. Is there some faster way to get service (I saw something about some third party incorporation services have direct update access to the database, so maybe they can do it faster than going through the government directly?)

My state, Washington, offers expedited service, which is two business days. You can get same day (usually less than an hour) if you file in person before 3:30 PM.

That said, I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where I'd be trying to form a corporation and want expedited service, let alone be willing to actually pay more for it [2]. What's the use case for this?

As far as where to incorporate goes, there are some good points for Delaware if you are going to do a large public company that operates in multiple state. If your company is going to a small private company doing business only in your home state, on the other hand, incorporating in your home state is often going to make more sense, at least if your state has reasonable corporate law, such as in states that use the Model Business Corporation Act.

Even big public companies sometimes find incorporating in their home state fine. Apple, for example, is a California corporation. Microsoft is a Washington corporation. Microsoft did change to Delaware in 1986, five years after initially incorporation in Washington, because Delaware was more liberal about allowing the company to indemnify officers, but Washington changed its laws on that point and Microsoft re-re-incorporated back to Washington in 1993. Overall, about 35% of the Fortune 500 are not incorporated in Delaware.

[1] https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-incorporate-a...

[2] OK...I can think of one situation. I used to work at a small Unix workstation maker called Callan Data Systems. Callan was founded and owned by three founders, who were all equal. I asked one of the others once how Callan's name ended up on the company if they all were equal.

The answer was that they had everything done to start the company except actually filing the papers, which they could not do because they could not agree on a name. This impasse went on for quite a while. During that time, the two other founders went away for a few days on a hunting trip. When they got back Dave told them he had incorporated using a temporary name so that actually get things going, and they could change the name later once they thought of a name. That temporary name was "Callan Data Systems".

They were never able to agree on a new name, and so it stayed Callan Data Systems until the end.

Perhaps expedited filing would be useful in that situation, so Dave could make sure they were incorporated before the others got back because if the filing has not yet been processed they may have been able to withdraw it, and they'd be right back where they were.

Post reply on HN