Secessio plebis • Hacker News Board

Re: Secessio plebis

#21

Post by atemerev » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:28 AM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #14

golergka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or Google (with the "killer drones" recently) It's because you assume that every software engineer has the same political opinion as you on that matter. In reality, there are people who could consider working on "killer drones" their patriotic duty and are ready to accept low compensation just because they feel they make the world a better place doing it instead of just selling ads. I know such people personally bo…

I do sincerely hope, wish, and ultimately assume [1] that intelligent people (which is what I'd find fair to describe the people at Google who were supposed to work on "killer drones") do have high ethical standards. Of unintelligent people, its less surprising. I don't deny the existence of people who don't have the same ethical standard as me though. I never claimed or argued those people did or did not exist at Go…

Working on drones saves soldiers’ lives. Working for intelligence saves civilian lives by preventing terrorist plots. People who work for the military and the intelligence usually see themselves as paragons of high ethical standards.

Re: Secessio plebis

#22

Post by emmelaich » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

Interesting to see people's take on this.

Before reading it I assumed it was some sort of explanation of Trump. Which is not disabused by the article. Not to say I'm in favour or the current POTUS's policies or manner.

Possibly related - "a secessio meant that all shops and workshops would shut down and commercial transactions would largely cease." reminds me of John Galt.

Re: Secessio plebis

#23

Post by s_kilk » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:31 AM UTC

emmelaich wrote: post #22

Interesting to see people's take on this. Before reading it I assumed it was some sort of explanation of Trump. Which is not disabused by the article. Not to say I'm in favour or the current POTUS's policies or manner. Possibly related - "a secessio meant that all shops and workshops would shut down and commercial transactions would largely cease." reminds me of John Galt.

>> reminds me of John Galt

Except the John Galt thing is based on the fantastical notion that a "creative" withdrawing from society would bring everything to a grinding halt.

The secessio plebis is the withdrawal of labour power, a general strike.

Re: Secessio plebis

#24

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:33 AM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #14

golergka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or Google (with the "killer drones" recently) It's because you assume that every software engineer has the same political opinion as you on that matter. In reality, there are people who could consider working on "killer drones" their patriotic duty and are ready to accept low compensation just because they feel they make the world a better place doing it instead of just selling ads. I know such people personally bo…

I do sincerely hope, wish, and ultimately assume [1] that intelligent people (which is what I'd find fair to describe the people at Google who were supposed to work on "killer drones") do have high ethical standards. Of unintelligent people, its less surprising. I don't deny the existence of people who don't have the same ethical standard as me though. I never claimed or argued those people did or did not exist at Go…

[deleted]

Re: Secessio plebis

#25

Post by Angostura » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:36 AM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #18

Shaddox wrote: post #12

This is a very interesting social phenomena and I'm glad someone randomly linked to it since I never heard of it. I imagine the effectiveness of it stood in the fact that cities were self-sufficient. Since cities are no longer self-sufficient, a protest like this in the modern age would be meaningless. All the plebs of New York could leave the city and nothing would change, except that some patrician would get richer…

The last garbage workers strike in New York lasted two weeks before the city caved.

But did it have any actual effect on the modern-day equivalent of the patricians? I imagine they just took a private jet to Monaco until it blew over.

Re: Secessio plebis

#26

Post by emmelaich » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:41 AM UTC

s_kilk wrote: post #23

emmelaich wrote: post #22

Interesting to see people's take on this. Before reading it I assumed it was some sort of explanation of Trump. Which is not disabused by the article. Not to say I'm in favour or the current POTUS's policies or manner. Possibly related - "a secessio meant that all shops and workshops would shut down and commercial transactions would largely cease." reminds me of John Galt.

>> reminds me of John Galt Except the John Galt thing is based on the fantastical notion that a "creative" withdrawing from society would bring everything to a grinding halt. The secessio plebis is the withdrawal of labour power, a general strike.

Hmm, maybe.

But I think the typical labour back then was not as an employee but as a independent concern. And they were pretty much the creatives of the day.

Re: Secessio plebis

#27

Post by arethuza » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:48 AM UTC

Semiapies wrote: post #8

Fnoord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is interesting how that didn't happen at Theranos or Google (with the "killer drones" recently). For the former case, I'd like to refer to the book Bad Blood. For the latter, 12 people from Google resigned over that issue. The massive privacy issues occurring, Uber debacle, NSA debacle, or how about Microsoft in the '90s? IBM before that? I guess the tech sector workers get divide & conqueror-ed.

Which is exactly what happened to the plebians. They spent a couple centuries periodically having these revolts, and eventually they ended up "represented by" a few rich plebian families more tied to the patricians than to their supposed class, while pretty much nothing changed for the actual common people.

Sounds remarkably like the transition the UK's Labour party went through to become "New Labour".

Re: Secessio plebis

#28

Post by ggm » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

After the uprising of the 17th of June The Secretary of the Writers' Union Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government To dissolve the people And elect another?

Bertolt Brecht

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Lösung

Re: Secessio plebis

#29

Post by olefoo » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 10:14 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #25

dmurray wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last garbage workers strike in New York lasted two weeks before the city caved.

But did it have any actual effect on the modern-day equivalent of the patricians? I imagine they just took a private jet to Monaco until it blew over.

Our society is much more complex and populous than Rome was at that time. Sure the idle rich could and did vacate but it's hard and expensive to move the massive investment in social infrastructure that any organisation that feels a need to be in New York City has made.

Re: Secessio plebis

#30

Post by bb101 » Wed, Sep 05, 2018, 10:23 AM UTC

For anyone interested in this, the Roman Empire series on Netflix is very good. Presented in a mini-series format, the primary characters, events and dates end up sticking in one's mind. Crassus's death at the hands of the Parthians is particularly brutal but some may say he deserved it after crucifying 6,000 men, one every 10 yards, on the road to Rome.