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In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

nytimes.com

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Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#21

Post by InclinedPlane »

CharlesW wrote: post #8
InclinedPlane wrote: post #6

Jerk? No, Steve Jobs was an asshole, across the board. He was also a visionary and he was able to achieve great things. Guess what, being a highly achieving visionary is orthogonal to being a good person. People need to stop conflating the two and stop idolizing people just because of their achievements.

I agree with all of this but would just note that Jobs wasn't an asshole every minute of the day, or even most of every day. He was often nice, charismatic, and inspirational.

Doesn't matter. An asshole is always an asshole even if they aren't an asshole 24/7. This is an equally important thing to understand. Being an asshole is a defining characteristic. Like being a murderer or a slave holder or a thief. Most murderers spend only a minute or so out of their entire lives committing a murder, that doesn't change who they are.

Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#23

Post by sxp62000 »

I've seen this pattern from quite a few authors before. They describe Jobs as a jerk, and then go on to explain how his jerktitude actually helped them later on, like he was teaching them a life lesson or something. He was just very good at manipulating people.

Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#24

Post by Nomentatus »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #6

Jerk? No, Steve Jobs was an asshole, across the board. He was also a visionary and he was able to achieve great things. Guess what, being a highly achieving visionary is orthogonal to being a good person. People need to stop conflating the two and stop idolizing people just because of their achievements.

True. There's probably a slight inverse correlation, since achievers don't usually have as much time to learn politesse or even play team sports when young. Gotta admit, that even though I've never been a Steve fan at all, reading the book reviews made me realise I've probably given him a few too many benefits of the doubt, too.

Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#25

Post by Nomentatus »

not_that_noob wrote: post #13
CharlesW wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of this but would just note that Jobs wasn't an asshole every minute of the day, or even most of every day. He was often nice, charismatic, and inspirational.

Jobs was IMO a High-Functioning Sociopath - http://www.md-health.com/Sociopath-Traits.html He turned his charm on when he need to accomplish something, but there is no real empathy for anyone who was not useful to him in some way. The sad reality of Lisa's situation was that he didn't need her. So he treated her very badly, and then as is typical with sociopaths, turn around and blame her for his behavior. I truly sy…

What's so fascinating to me is that his narcissism/sociopathy ending up being focused on creating ever-better products, and therefore useful; that strikes me as rare, although it may not be. Wanting to be admired for doing (pushing others to do) actual good work isn't the usual sociopath thing. Maybe the highly unusual example Wozniak showed him, of the excellence humans could achieve (beyond what cut-and-paste engineers could achieve) was the real seed of that trait. Plus enjoying scalding others.

Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#26

Post by Nomentatus »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #21
CharlesW wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of this but would just note that Jobs wasn't an asshole every minute of the day, or even most of every day. He was often nice, charismatic, and inspirational.

Doesn't matter. An asshole is always an asshole even if they aren't an asshole 24/7. This is an equally important thing to understand. Being an asshole is a defining characteristic. Like being a murderer or a slave holder or a thief. Most murderers spend only a minute or so out of their entire lives committing a murder, that doesn't change who they are.

Right. Hitler was great to his immediate clerical staff (according to their much later reports) and liked to pet dogs. So what?

Re: In ‘Small Fry,’ Steve Jobs Comes Across as a Jerk. His Daughter Forgives Him

#27

Post by Nomentatus »

projectramo wrote: post #7

For some of this tone and context matter. If you tell someone they smell like a toilet but you smile before and laugh after, or sort of squint and say it playfully, it might be a joke and not mean. This is doubly true of a family member.

"You had to be there" and all that. Worth saying, and also my first thought while reading the book reviews... But on reflection: I've heard worse from my (electrical engineer) father (not delivered very nicely); and given all Steve's other less-than-charming traits, it seems unlikely he found a way to spare her feelings while delivering the news.
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