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What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

21–30 of 160 posts

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#21
post #2

Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?

Be critical and unsupportive of American businesses that work with the CCP. Cite explicitly their human rights record and policy on Taiwan. Don't swallow narratives about the vaguely positive outcomes that could come from collaboration with the regime, nor unquestioningly embrace ideologies that requires expansion into the mainland as a moral or logical necessity.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#22
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

By that logic, you could say the same for any country that has gotten its independence recently (say, Singapore)..

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#23

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

I remember this basic "argument" from my childhood. After getting caught doing something of dubious moral value a child would say "Well everyone else is doing it". You knew it was wrong but you did it anyway and justified it by pointing out that "everyone else" did it. One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. Probably never happen since people are the same everywhere and really only like to point out shortcomings when they aren't the beneficiary but it would be so nice to find that there actually is an adult somewhere in the room.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#24
post #18

Tourism drops. I'd contrast that with other countries, which e.g. topple governments or downright invade, but that would be whataboutism, and whataboutism is bad /s

I think it is reasonable to expect China to topple foreign governments in the near future. It has a powerful military, a highly nationalist government and an ambition to own at least everything within the Nine Dash Line, or more.

And that's pretty scary because we in Hong Kong have felt the chilling effect of Chinese meddling into the judiciary, media and government.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#25
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

what does that even mean??? South Korea was established in 1948. Estonia was established in 1991. The world recognizes these legitimate countries.

From your past comment histories, it is clear you are pro China in every sense of the word. Maybe you should reexamine your values and see why you are so supportive of a disgusting government.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

The British tried a similar narrative with the War of 1812, and we in America are still alive and kicking. I hope the same for Taiwan and their independence.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#27
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with Ch…

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

The other side of the story is that Taiwan was was ruled as part of a single China for centuries, it was the final holdout of the KMT government that was defeated when the communists took over, and it too would have fallen if it had not been protected by the United States.

I'm on the side of independence as you are, but I can see why the PRC makes the claims it does.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#28
post #4
post #2

Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?

It will be interesting to see if/when China moves to economically censure a G8 country for engaging in trade with Taiwan.

Could US be the first in a few years? Given the outrage when Taiwanese president visited a Taiwanese coffee shop in LA last week.

European countries appear to be content to please the Chinese government, be it on trade or in academia.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#29
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

Go back further and Taiwan was under Japanese occupation and the People's Republic of China didn't yet exist.

So if the short timescale discounts Taiwan shouldn't it also discount China?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#30
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with Ch…

Taiwan has a relatively strong military and while China would easily win any war, it would be crazy to fight it’s military.

As the past 60 years of US Military action have made abundantly clear, even for the best military on the planet by quite a margin no war is “easy” to win. Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do, but even then it’s not “easy”, especially if you plan to take permanent control of the territory afterwards. For that to happen, the overwhelming majority of the country has to _want_ such control, and the remaining people have to not be too heavily invested in the idea of independence. It’s pretty much the opposite of what you see in Taiwan.
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