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Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

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Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#21

Post by mnm1 »

fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

What frequency is it safe to consume alcohol at? Last I checked, never, unless of course you want to cite studies funded by the alcohol industry. Your opinion is that MDMA is worse than alcohol. I don't even think it's in the same league. In my opinion and extensive experience talking with addicts, alcohol is by far the most destructive drug, worse than heroin (and other opiates/opioids) and even methamphetamine. It is most destructive to the self, mind and body, and it's certainly most destructive to society. MDMA has a handful of deaths over many decades and billions of doses whereas alcohol kills 2.5 million people worldwide every single year. There is no comparison.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#22

Post by senorjazz »

tpm wrote: post #19
fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

yes, long-term effects of alcohol are much worse, mostly because it damages the body as well as the brain, is used in larger amounts and through longer periods. Meanwhile people who have used MDMA at parties when young (and then stop using it, as most will) will have mostly no noticeable adverse long-term effects. Now of course if you consumed alcohol at anywhere near the frequency you consume water that wouldn't be…

so you comparing long term heavy alcohol use, vs minimal MDMA use during youth.

Not really comparable. Would be comparing someone who has used MDMA 1-2 a week for 20 years against someone who had a couple of beers a week in college then stopped.

Heavy prolonged use / abuse of MDMA is damaging. Same with any drug

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#23

Post by mnm1 »

fhood wrote: post #12
mfoy_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said anyone should consume MDMA at the same frequency you could safely consume alcohol.

> It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol Alcohol and cigarettes are not really comparable to MDMA, and I just wanted to make that point. Marijuana? Sure, in much the same category, probably safer. MDMA is a whole different class of chemical.

Of course they're not comparable because MDMA is much, much safer than either alcohol or cigarettes. We're talking millions of deaths a year for alcohol and cigarettes vs. a few isolated deaths with MDMA. Socially, there is no comparison or doubt which of the three is the worst: alcohol by far. Can you even find an instance of domestic abuse or murder facilitated by MDMA? I could find a whole bunch that happened just this past hour.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#24

Post by tpm »

senorjazz wrote: post #22
tpm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, long-term effects of alcohol are much worse, mostly because it damages the body as well as the brain, is used in larger amounts and through longer periods. Meanwhile people who have used MDMA at parties when young (and then stop using it, as most will) will have mostly no noticeable adverse long-term effects. Now of course if you consumed alcohol at anywhere near the frequency you consume water that wouldn't be…

so you comparing long term heavy alcohol use, vs minimal MDMA use during youth. Not really comparable. Would be comparing someone who has used MDMA 1-2 a week for 20 years against someone who had a couple of beers a week in college then stopped. Heavy prolonged use / abuse of MDMA is damaging. Same with any drug

Well exactly, what would be a good comparison here? Why mention heavy long-term abuse of MDMA (which is I think very unusual compared to heavy abuse of alcohol) in an article about MDMA treatment? The MAPS PTSD protocol involves, if I remember correctly, in all cases under 20 doses of MDMA in the whole life, mostly much less.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#25

Post by wp381640 »

dgzl wrote: post #20
wp381640 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1mg / kg (or just a little more) I only later learned more about dosages and found that the downsides are at higher (1.5mg/kg+) doses and with long re-dosing

I don't mean to be rude, but not only is 1mg not a 'mid-range' dose, but it's not even enough to get effects from the drug. 100mg is ~average for a small/beginner dose (usually cost $5-10), could that be what your thinking? Source: My own and my friends' experiences. Edit: my apologies, I didn't see the /kg part of your equation. After doing the math, yes that seems like a reasonable beginner/small dose.

1mg per KG of bodyweight

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#26

Post by zdragnar »

dgzl wrote: post #20
wp381640 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1mg / kg (or just a little more) I only later learned more about dosages and found that the downsides are at higher (1.5mg/kg+) doses and with long re-dosing

I don't mean to be rude, but not only is 1mg not a 'mid-range' dose, but it's not even enough to get effects from the drug. 100mg is ~average for a small/beginner dose (usually cost $5-10), could that be what your thinking? Source: My own and my friends' experiences. Edit: my apologies, I didn't see the /kg part of your equation. After doing the math, yes that seems like a reasonable beginner/small dose.

Do you mean 100mg / kg, like the parent was talking about? 100mg total would be roughly 1mg / kg for my body weight.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#27

Post by psychedictic »

fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

More specifically, MDMA is neurotoxic.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#28

Post by leoreeves »

psychedictic wrote: post #27
fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

More specifically, MDMA is neurotoxic.

Indeed, this is a good overview: https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-science-and-statistics-technic...

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#29

Post by guildenstern »

clay_the_ripper wrote: post #18
fhood wrote: post #5

MDMA can be extremely dangerous to your long term mental health. I'm not saying it doesn't have valid medical benefits, it certainly seems to, but if you consumed MDMA at any where near the frequency it is safe to consume alcohol it would not go well. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be legal, but lets not pretend it is comparable to alcohol. Edit: TL;DR MDMA probably has incredible medical benefits, but this do…

Pretty much any drug can be extremely dangerous. I see this response often (and I’m not critzizing you here) but look: painkillers, right? Given all the time. Can be EXTREMELY dangerous. Alcohol: CAN BE extremely dangerous. Millions of people die a year in alcohol related death. Nicotine: dangerous. Blood pressure medication: can be dangerous. Birth control pills...also dangerous. Drugs are freaking dangerous. Anythi…

Yes but MDMA specifically will mangle your brain after very little recreational usage relative to almost all other drugs. Recreational use of MDMA a few times a week is _very bad_ on the long term health of your brain, very few other drugs are on that level — certainly none of the drugs you’ve listed.

Re: Suicidal Vet Calls MDMA Treatment ‘a Miracle'

#30

Post by dghughes »

lawlessone wrote: post #7
ClassyJacket wrote: post #3

I have no doubts, and I'm so thankful of the research that MAPS is doing. I haven't even been thru any trauma and MDMA pulled me out of depression and greatly reduced my anxiety. It was an absolute miracle for me. It disgusts me that the stuff is illegal while cigarettes and alcohol are not. AMA.

Alcohol in particular is notorious for making depression worse. https://www.quitalcohol.com/alcohol-abuse/alcohol-and-suicid...

Cannabis can make underlying mental health problems worse. I guess it's important to note people should not self-medicate with any drug.

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=...

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