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Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#21

Post by torstenvl »

The issue is that ownership used to constitute a form of wealth, but now it constitutes a relentless financial drain.

When I got stationed in Northern Virginia, I thought about buying a condo. But almost everywhere I looked, there were absurd HOA fees, some as much as $400/mo. Considering I could rent a room for $750/mo, it didn't make sense to buy. If RENT As for physical possessions, they all cost money (in rent!). Sure, I could own my own kayak and ATV. But it'll cost me $150/mo for a storage unit to keep them in. So until such time as I spend $1800/year on quad and kayak rentals (not even counting the amortized purchase prices), its more financially sound for me to rent them.

There are exceptions. I own my truck, which I bought used, and I know I'll drive it for years and years until it's beyond fixing. In the long run, it's cheaper than renting.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#22

Post by dijit »

I share the observation that we are living in a "rent economy" of the things we pay for, especially intellectual property or creative works.

I've noticed it happening slowly over time, but there are dangers[0] even if you believe you "own" your media.

There are no good solutions, people are willing to trade ownership for convenience because /mostly/ you're getting the same value- why do you care if you can't access that song you liked in 30 years?

Personally; I fight this notion as much as possible; if I buy digital media- it's backed up. I do not give my custom to anyone who wishes to own my digital rights (thus, I avoid DRM) and, where possible, I buy physical copies of goods.

However, I work in an industry which is moving towards providing "service", namely; I work in video games. And we have a new concept: "Game as a service", the idea being that the game lives and grows and dies, rather than being a static art which is subject to the non-decay or altering hand of time immemorial. Thus, the games we played in 1995 can be played to day, but the games we played in 2010 are much less possible, and the games we play in 2018 will be impossible to play 10 years on.

I don't have a particular point, I'm more frustrated with the state of affairs. Also: Apple Music can sincerely fuck off.

[0]: https://blog.dijit.sh/importance-of-self-hosted-backups

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#23

Post by grasshopperpurp »

claydavisss wrote: post #9
ModernMech wrote: post #4

> The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of training for future entrepreneurship. Then rents went up, education became more expensive, wages went stagnant, the rich got richer, and suddenly owning property and buying "stuff" to fuel the insatiab…

But society has willfully embraced living "in the present"...who here would give up their SF rental in exchange for a property in Gilroy they will eventually own? How many here would give up their leased 2018 BMW for a used Toyota Yaris?

>How many here would give up their leased 2018 BMW for a used Toyota Yaris?

If someone gave me a BMW, assuming it wasn't a close friend or someone I had to worry about offending, I would sell it and continue using my old car.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#24

Post by ModernMech »

tootie wrote: post #11
ModernMech wrote: post #4

> The nation was based on the notion that property ownership gives individuals a stake in the system. It set Americans apart from feudal peasants, taught us how property rights and incentives operate, and was a kind of training for future entrepreneurship. Then rents went up, education became more expensive, wages went stagnant, the rich got richer, and suddenly owning property and buying "stuff" to fuel the insatiab…

I think that was all intentional. He's not at any point saying this is good or bad. Just that it's uncharted territory and the long-term impact is unknown and not being prepared for.

I'm sure it's intentional, but I think it's still strange given the implications. The author is on to something, but I think they need to keep going on this line of thought. If market forces are driving companies to work against the notion of property ownership, and the idea of capitalism is predicated on the notion of property ownership, the current trend doesn't seem tenable.

At what point does capitalism stop being what it is and evolve into something else entirely?

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#25

Post by TaylorAlexander »

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

An essentially never discussed option is also that the fridge could be open source. Now when it breaks there is both motive and opportunity for third party repair companies to offer upgrades and fixes.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#26

Post by Shivetya »

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

well one bad trend recently in HVAC services is companies trying to get people to lease the units for their homes. this then prevent easy sale as the HVAC leases usually allow the leasing company to require payment in full for the units or credit check the buyer to insure continuance of the lease.

So I disagree with your premise based on the example you gave. I would say it would be fine with items you only keep a few years and not long term appliances. I really do not think it encourages them to create units that fail because many companies still want their reputation to be built upon longevity. Simply put, the sales volumes are already great enough to not require shenanigans like what you suggest

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#27

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

amelius wrote: post #6

It may be better for the environment to not own stuff, but instead use services. For example, take a fridge. If I buy a fridge, the company I buy it from has an incentive to make it break in N years, so they can sell me a new one, i.e. "planned obsolescence". However, if I subscribe to a service to keep my food and beverages at a certain temperature, then the company has the incentive to make the fridge last as long…

I don't think replacing one bad thing with another is the right solution. Planned obsolescence should be illegal, plain and simple.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#29

Post by ghaff »

ryandvm wrote: post #12

As someone who has given away a couple thousand dollars worth of crappy music from the 80s and 90s, I can say for certain that I am glad I don't own it anymore. A Spotify subscription that allows me to listen to practically any song that was ever recorded is of far more utility than a pathetically limited personal music collection.

I'm glad it's all on a hard disc these days rather than having to flip through CDs or vinyl all the time, but I still like knowing that the bits are under my control. Ongoing availability is a lot better with music than video to be sure. And I might feel differently if I didn't already own GBs of favored music. But I still wouldn't feel comfortable just flushing all my music and trusting in Apple, Spotify, or Amazon to permanently provide me with everything I want.

Re: Americans Own Less Stuff, and That’s Reason to Be Nervous

#30

Post by chriswarbo »

Finnucane wrote: post #2

I don't know about you, but one of the reasons I am accumulating less stuff is that I already have plenty of stuff, more than I can comfortably fit in my house. I need to get rid of stuff before I can get more stuff.

"My house" is rented, so everything I own is a liability. I'm currently getting ready to move again (to find work), and selling off some of the few things I accumulated since the last move (~3 years ago) since there won't be any space for them.
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