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The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

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Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

msiyer wrote: post #16
plankers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a "bitcoin fanboi," I never claimed to not want the rule of law. I just don't want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. If anything, I'd like _more_ rule of law when it comes to holding central banks accountable when they fuck up.

Central banks can never be held accountable for anything. In most cases, they cannot even be audited.

> In most cases, they cannot even be audited

Central banks are audited to a borderline-silly level of redundancy in every major trading economy (i.e. the U.S., EU, Japan, UK, Canada and Switzerland).

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#22

Post by plankers »

kevingadd wrote: post #8
plankers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a "bitcoin fanboi," I never claimed to not want the rule of law. I just don't want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. If anything, I'd like _more_ rule of law when it comes to holding central banks accountable when they fuck up.

How do you avoid unaccountable third parties in a cryptocurrency like Bitcoin? Isn't policy currently being set, in practice, by a mix of the major miners (many behind the Chinese Great Firewall) and core developers, none of whom were elected or are accountable to you in any way? Hell, one of the people with influence over Bitcoin is just some rando who started a popular forum.

Being able to review the code yourself is helpful, and being able to contribute to the code yourself is even better. It may not be perfect, but it's certainly a step up from bankers setting policy in their ivory towers, in my opinion. Changes to the bitcoin source code, as a rule, only happen when the development community has reached a reasonable consensus after public discussion. Then it's left to miners to implement this "policy" by running the software that developers release.

Granted, not all bitcoin clients are run in this fashion, but you mention the core developers, who are held accountable to the community by their reputations. There's something greatly liberating about being able to talk to the policy setters on IRC and have them treat you like any other person, rather than part of the rabble.

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#23

Post by plankers »

FabHK wrote: post #18
plankers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a "bitcoin fanboi," I never claimed to not want the rule of law. I just don't want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. If anything, I'd like _more_ rule of law when it comes to holding central banks accountable when they fuck up.

> when they fuck up Most central banks in developed countries have delivered reasonable moderate inflation over decades. Also, in most developed countries you're free to hold other (fiat) currencies or real assets. Of course, some countries have huge problems, but if they introduce capital controls, they are just as likely to prohibit you from holding Bitcoin as from holding other currencies. I still don't see what p…

They solve the problem of getting money past Venezuela's currency controls at the border, assuming you can find somebody in the country who will accept it. That's not a small if, but it does represent an alternative that would not exist without cryptocurrencies.

But I'm talking more about when central banks fail to react to crises, sometimes only acting months or years after action could be taken to prevent some of the worst aspects of these crashes. Plus the current pervasive distortion of markets due to quantitative easing (and now, the inverse) is seriously fucking with how we value companies. The P/E ratio of most large tech companies is absolutely crazeballs bonkers and we have monetary policy, in part, to thank for that.

As for inflation, the U.S. Federal Reserve can't seem to figure out why inflation is as low as it is with unemployment this low. They just don't know!

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#24

Post by plankers »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #17
plankers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a "bitcoin fanboi," I never claimed to not want the rule of law. I just don't want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. If anything, I'd like _more_ rule of law when it comes to holding central banks accountable when they fuck up.

>I just don’t want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. How do you justify that despite the blockchain being decentralized - that at any time, a dozen different people could immediately or long term ruin or muck with bitcoin’s policies and directions? I’ll also at this time point out it’s a commodity in effect, not a currency really, but different topic. You…

Eh, it's not as easy to influence the policies and direction of bitcoin's core client as you might think. It requires consensus building, which is nowhere near as easy as enforcing consensus on the state of the blockchain. It's a messy process, involving much debate and hashing out (pun intended) of details. See here[1] for more.

If it is a commodity, then it's one that's awfully easy to spend on whatever random bullshit I come across on the internet.

[1]https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#25

Post by windows_tips »

knorker wrote: post #6

Moral of the story: No, people do NOT want the government out of their way. Turns out that even bitcoin fanbois DO want rule of law, and law enforcement. The reason money works the way it does is that it's almost entirely logically derived from hard requirements from everyone. Not that "the man" is trying to oppress you.

Of course "bitcoin fanbois" want rule of law and law enforcement.

Bitcoin is like the ultimate in law enforcement. Basically the only way to get the coin is through proof-of-work and ownership rules are rigorously enforced.

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#26

Post by jkabrg »

FabHK wrote: post #18
plankers wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a "bitcoin fanboi," I never claimed to not want the rule of law. I just don't want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. If anything, I'd like _more_ rule of law when it comes to holding central banks accountable when they fuck up.

> when they fuck up Most central banks in developed countries have delivered reasonable moderate inflation over decades. Also, in most developed countries you're free to hold other (fiat) currencies or real assets. Of course, some countries have huge problems, but if they introduce capital controls, they are just as likely to prohibit you from holding Bitcoin as from holding other currencies. I still don't see what p…

Just because something is OK -- and has been OK for a hundred years -- doesn't mean it isn't also massively brittle (not that I'm saying it is). You're committing the fallacy of induction when talking about economics. Dangerous move.

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#27

Post by rossdavidh »

barking wrote: post #13

The guy goes on holiday from Russia to Greece and then after being arrested and extradition sought to the USA he's suddenly also wanted back in Russia on a minor charge. How suspicious is that?

My first thought was, "isn't there someone in Greece who lost bitcoin in Mt. Gox? They could just prosecute them in Greece".

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#28

Post by lozenge »

plankers wrote: post #24
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just don’t want some unaccountable third party mucking about with the monetary policy of the currency I'm using. How do you justify that despite the blockchain being decentralized - that at any time, a dozen different people could immediately or long term ruin or muck with bitcoin’s policies and directions? I’ll also at this time point out it’s a commodity in effect, not a currency really, but different topic. You…

Eh, it's not as easy to influence the policies and direction of bitcoin's core client as you might think. It requires consensus building, which is nowhere near as easy as enforcing consensus on the state of the blockchain. It's a messy process, involving much debate and hashing out (pun intended) of details. See here[1] for more. If it is a commodity, then it's one that's awfully easy to spend on whatever random bull…

It takes a concerted effort but it's definitely possible, especially by those who moderate forums and subreddits. Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin were all successful in doing so, although they each only captured part of the original Bitcoin market cap.

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#29

Post by baronp »

barking wrote: post #13

The guy goes on holiday from Russia to Greece and then after being arrested and extradition sought to the USA he's suddenly also wanted back in Russia on a minor charge. How suspicious is that?

Who wants to be extradited to the US ? Nobodoby, especially russians !

Re: The Man Who Solved Bitcoin’s Most Notorious Heist

#30

Post by Retric »

plankers wrote: post #23
FabHK wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when they fuck up Most central banks in developed countries have delivered reasonable moderate inflation over decades. Also, in most developed countries you're free to hold other (fiat) currencies or real assets. Of course, some countries have huge problems, but if they introduce capital controls, they are just as likely to prohibit you from holding Bitcoin as from holding other currencies. I still don't see what p…

They solve the problem of getting money past Venezuela's currency controls at the border, assuming you can find somebody in the country who will accept it. That's not a small if, but it does represent an alternative that would not exist without cryptocurrencies. But I'm talking more about when central banks fail to react to crises, sometimes only acting months or years after action could be taken to prevent some of t…

Electric transfers can occur anywhere, so again what exactly does bitcoin bring to the table?
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