Live data from Hacker News

The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

theguardian.com

21–30 of 141 posts

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#21
post #8

I seriously wonder if OCD could be is created because of our lifestyle in society. Yesterday I went to a coffeeshop (creamery in SF) and there was this crazy bathroom where I had to scan a QR code to get in. The door automatically opened, I walked in, and it automatically closed behind me. When I washed my hands, the water faucet detects motion and it has a built in air dryer as well. When I'm done, I pushed a button…

Right, but how do you do this at home?

Extreme hygiene isn't good for your immune system. With exposure, you build up a higher tolerance. If I use too much soap, I get acne. Hygiene is ultimately a balance. There's no such thing as clean or dirty. Those are made up extreme definitions in our head to act upon. However it is a spectrum, an equilibrium. And if you kill all your good bacteria and remove all your sebum you damage that ecosystem.

To tackle OCD, you need to get to the root of the problem first. Understand why it is happening (stress/anxiety related but how exactly?). As with any personality disorder this is best done under the guidance of a professional.

Example though: if I sit in public transport, I frequently check if I got my wallet, phone, keys, etc. but there's a very good reason for that. Mugging is high in Amsterdam, and I tend to lose things. But sometimes I check too often, and then I tell myself I'm overreacting. I can also very much recommend mindfulness. I do guided sessions in public transport and it makes me calm when I arrive at my destination. To be fair, I don't have OCD; I have autism. My partner as well, and she's way more anal about hygiene, sometimes getting close to OCD-esque symptoms. I got something similar with using keys to close doors but again there's a very good reason for that. I've had my key in my door (external) for a night, I've left my door open for a night, I left my bicycle with key on street, I lost my keys multiple times, and I've forgot to lock my doors countless of times.

BTW, those build-in airdryers? They blow bacteria through the air, on your clean hands. More dirty than a paper towel you throw away afterwards (and either isn't dangerous).

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#22
post #4
post #2

I'm appreciative of somebody who also has OCD writing an article like this detailing how the disorder isn't at all like the stereotype of a neat freak. What's funny is, I myself am actually a terribly messy person with books and papers always strewn about (among clothes not quite in the hamper, &c). What's interesting to me from a personal history viewpoint is that one of my earliest compulsions also centered around…

Thanks for sharing. The complexities of the human brain will never cease to amaze me. There should be a way, in all this neuronal maze, to escape those compulsions, but I bet it's really well hidden.

I would want to measure dietary Taurine levels in the body for a start. Experiments consuming 3g/day have shown no side effects, but your main source is limited to energy drinks so you have to contend with caffeine, and Taurine does not last long in the body (can start to be expelled in urine within 10mins), much like many of the water soluble chemicals classed as vitamins or minerals. Cooking actually destroys it from organ meats and some scientific studies have shown a link between vegetarianism and a variety of mental health issues including OCD. You wont find any substantial levels of Taurine in vegetables, but you will in raw liver, kidneys and brains. From my own experience, 3 or 4 Redbulls a day (1g of Taurine per can) can change many repetitive behaviours. Taurine also has many other positive effects on the body like including VO2 max, improving cholesterol profiles, improving bile acid patterns, reducing depression, improving sleep, improving memory, reducing atherosclerosis, reducing fatty liver disease, reversing some types of cataracts, reducing stones especially in women, to name some of the observed scientific improvements to human health. Its probably why its now added to formula milk for babies since the 80's (but at levels lower than breast milk) and has subsequently improved their cognitive abilities.

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#23
i used to be plagued by worries who some might relate to all kinds of stress disorders or obsessive / compulsive disorders. Recently in my life i found actually, that these things are stress, and that (i finally managed for a short while to..) if i resolve this stress in my life, this whole background noise of worries and negative thinking just goes away. like it's not even actually my own thoughts or something...

Not trying to tell how the mind or psychology works, but after a few diagnoses of incurable mental problems, i found that actually these were all wrong, and the problem was just plain stress. it;'s very hard and painful to accept and resolve these things, costs a lot of self-reflection and self-acceptance of the dark side to put it simply, but i'd want to encourage anyone who suffers from these things, to the point of being depressed for years and years on end, that there is hope to grow beyong yourself, to places more calm and beautiful than you can even imagine.

Keep up hope and positivity, and look into yourself for positivity and you will find it.

~peace

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#24
the fact that this article got upvoted so much probably also explains why there are always paper towels available and a waste basket near every restroom door in the bay area right?

I literally possess binary memory when it comes to "what is clean" and "what isn't clean (touched the floor, public restroom, etc)" for most of my things. Also used to have "San francisco shoes" and "South bay shoes"

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#25
post #21
post #8

I seriously wonder if OCD could be is created because of our lifestyle in society. Yesterday I went to a coffeeshop (creamery in SF) and there was this crazy bathroom where I had to scan a QR code to get in. The door automatically opened, I walked in, and it automatically closed behind me. When I washed my hands, the water faucet detects motion and it has a built in air dryer as well. When I'm done, I pushed a button…

Right, but how do you do this at home? Extreme hygiene isn't good for your immune system. With exposure, you build up a higher tolerance. If I use too much soap, I get acne. Hygiene is ultimately a balance. There's no such thing as clean or dirty. Those are made up extreme definitions in our head to act upon. However it is a spectrum, an equilibrium. And if you kill all your good bacteria and remove all your sebum yo…

Yeah, I think it's important to consider very hard whether the carefulness is adaptive and maladaptive. This is not an easy problem. I have done my fair share of both underchecking and overchecking.

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#26
Not a sufferer of OCD, but anxiety and depression (and associated neuroticism). One of the scary things to accept is that you have no control over what you think, free will is a (darn good) illusion.

Since we have no idea why these obsessive and dark thoughts are occuring in psychiatric patients, the best thing you can do, as a patient, is to get good at identifying all the bullshit that's going through your head: "No, that random crowd of people doesn't deeply despise you", "No, you don't have to kill yourself because you can't finish your studies in regular time", "No, you won't be laughed at because you're looking for an SO"

Precisely none of the fears I had have ever come to pass. I am, relative to people I interact with, (by a huge margin) my largest critic, which can be disabling, when every time you make some small trivial mistake you think "Oh god, nobody will ever forgive me for this, what a stupid PoS you are". It's all a fiction told by a disordered part of the mind.

On the bright side, things have been improving a ton for me since when it was really bad a year ago, but it takes medication (not an option for everyone), time and lots of patience.

One of the best things I came across on the web are the works of Robert Sapolsky, biology and neurology professor at Stanford. Specifically his 25 part lecture series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL150326949691B199, his talk on depression: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc and his book "Behave" (there's more from him, just look around).

It's not that I learned some "magic fact" that suddenly frees me from all nonsensical thoughts, but it has opened up the complex, nuanced world of human biology and behavior and numerous interactions between genes and environment, between mind and body or between different functional parts of the brain (obviously a course like this can only give a broad overview).

There's so much hidden stuff happening that, without us being conscious of it, influences who we are, and yet one doesn't have to be a plaything of one's environment, because several of these factors can be influenced like which experiences you seek and which you avoid, once you are aware that these things can shape you. That said, a lot of stuff like your genetic predisposition, prenatal environment, childhood, external stressors (e.g. death of close relatives and friends) can not be changed, but it also matters _how_ you think about them.

One will not become resistant to psychiatric illness no matter how fancy and elaborate you think about it or yourself, but it takes off the edge of thinking of oneself as this especially hopeless case. And equally importantly Sapolsky's course/book shaped my thinking of others, made me much less prejudicial (I sometimes catch myself with prejudice, but normally I notice), much more aware that everyone else is also subject to the same rules and phenomena that govern human thought and behavior and there's nothing "wrong" with them (in the sense that they're just "an evil person" or somesuch thing).

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#27

I was like ten years old when I had to even out things if I stepped on a crack in the pavement. If I brushed by something on one side I had to even it out. If I bumped into something, I'd have to go back and bump the other side evenly. One day I saw a TV show or a movie where someone was like that and people treated them like they were retarded. So I tried really hard to stop it. Over the next few years, I just got r…

I used to have little compulsions like this as a kid, and I know some others who did. Perhaps it's not uncommon? Probably rather different to full-blown adult OCD though

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#28
Couldn't get rid of all the compulsions for quite a long time (a few years really), but after starting meditating every day I was able to nearly totally get rid of them.

I'm basically finally able to just let go of the thoughts that once seemed overwhelming.

EDIT: To quote the article "because deep down, the sufferer knows the thoughts and compulsions are irrational. However, despite this knowledge, there always remains a terrible “what if”.".

That's basically it, I'm able to finally rationally decide that letting go won't have bad effects, so I'm able to let it go.

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#29
post #8

I seriously wonder if OCD could be is created because of our lifestyle in society. Yesterday I went to a coffeeshop (creamery in SF) and there was this crazy bathroom where I had to scan a QR code to get in. The door automatically opened, I walked in, and it automatically closed behind me. When I washed my hands, the water faucet detects motion and it has a built in air dryer as well. When I'm done, I pushed a button…

I'm one of those people who uses a paper towel to open public bathroom doors. I get upset when: 1. There's no trash can by the door for my auxiliary paper towel 2. The door isn't push on the inside (can't kick with my foot). For the reason you mention. I'm sure it's mostly just conditioning. It's a harmless preference and it probably saved me a few colds (although, perhaps getting a virus would have helped me in the…

> It's a harmless preference and it probably saved me a few colds

Or not, you know?

Re: The terrible 'what if': how OCD makes every day a matter of life or death

#30
post #22
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing. The complexities of the human brain will never cease to amaze me. There should be a way, in all this neuronal maze, to escape those compulsions, but I bet it's really well hidden.

I would want to measure dietary Taurine levels in the body for a start. Experiments consuming 3g/day have shown no side effects, but your main source is limited to energy drinks so you have to contend with caffeine, and Taurine does not last long in the body (can start to be expelled in urine within 10mins), much like many of the water soluble chemicals classed as vitamins or minerals. Cooking actually destroys it fr…

Ironic, in this case, as taurine was once extracted from bull semen.
Post reply on HN