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Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

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Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#21

Post by pluto9 »

spacenick88 wrote: post #17
pluto9 wrote: post #3

I suspect the birds would eventually ignore the drones unless the drones are made to pose an actual physical threat to them. City pigeons are so accustomed to cars and humans that they barely move out of the way in time to avoid being crushed.

Well sheep have been herded by dogs for millennia and I think it's pretty rare that they actually hurt any sheep.

Those sheep are domesticated and a social hierarchy exists between them and a specific dog or group of dogs. I don't think we can look at that situation and extrapolate that a flock of wild birds will "obey" a random flying robot that they know to be nothing more than a harmless nuisance.

Come to think of it, birds don't even make enough of an effort to avoid existing aircraft that are large, loud, and do pose a threat to them, which is why these drones are being developed in the first place.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#22

Post by maltalex »

vertexFarm wrote: post #11
maltalex wrote: post #5

What’s worse - sucking in a bird into a jet engine or a bird-scaring drone?

This is classic short-sighted engineering hubris. Realistically how much statistical threat is there from birds? And how long until this design malfunctions somewhere? If this is rolled out in scale and put in use at every airport, it's going to happen.

> Realistically how much statistical threat is there from birds?

From wikipedia:

"The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) reported 65,139 bird strikes for 2011–14, and the Federal Aviation Authority counted 177,269 wildlife strike reports on civil aircraft between 1990 and 2015, growing 38% in 7 years from 2009 to 2015. Birds accounted for 97%"

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#24

Post by LeifCarrotson »

maltalex wrote: post #5

What’s worse - sucking in a bird into a jet engine or a bird-scaring drone?

Sucking a bird into a jet engine, obviously. Was this a rhetorical question?

The jet engine is mounted to a plane. It's designed to withstand bird strikes without exploding - they literally blast frozen turkeys into it with an air cannon - but they can still cause engine out situations that result in crashes or emergency landings and risk the lives of the hundreds of people on board. Not to mention the huge repair costs all that incurs.

I value the safety of the people aboard that plane far above the comfort of the birds that would like to live at the airport, to the extent that scaring millions of birds is worth doing if it's likely to save the lives of a couple hundred people. Though that's getting pretty close to the threshold at which it ceases to be worthwhile.

Also, if I was in the bird's shoes, I would much prefer to be scared by a drone than ingested into the jet engine...

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#25

Post by LeifCarrotson »

pluto9 wrote: post #15
onemoresoop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drones would chase the birds away. And in cases when the birds are to be sucked by a jet's engine the autonomous drone would follow suit

> The drones would chase the birds away. Chasing requires fleeing. If the bird knows from experience that the drone won't hurt him, then why would he flee from it?

Because he's a bird?

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#26

Post by brailsafe »

sandworm101 wrote: post #4

>> The passengers on Flight 1549 were only saved because the pilots were so skilled. Of course the engineering and planning that went into the aircraft's construction had nothing to do with it, nor did the countless government regulations dictating safety equipment and training. These sorts of "miracles" happen rather regularly. A plane crashes near a runway totaling the aircraft, but everyone walks away. Piloting is…

With some regularity, I encounter people who work either around pilots or on planes and consistently attempt to disqualify pilots from praise, no matter how insignificant that is to the context of the conversation. As if I would need to comment on any of Elon Musk's success to mention that his success would not have been had without the countless engineers and layers of automative tech that he's building upon. These being implicit details, and the people in those positions more than likely choosing them with no expectation that they'd be a figurehead.

Now, I only get a little of that from your comment, just enough to remind me of this impression. Where does the tacit resentment come from? Anyone else experience this?

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#27

Post by jdmichal »

spacenick88 wrote: post #17
pluto9 wrote: post #3

I suspect the birds would eventually ignore the drones unless the drones are made to pose an actual physical threat to them. City pigeons are so accustomed to cars and humans that they barely move out of the way in time to avoid being crushed.

Well sheep have been herded by dogs for millennia and I think it's pretty rare that they actually hurt any sheep.

There are several types of sheepdog, and some do nip at livestock to keep them motivated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herding_dog#Herding_behavior

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#28

Post by onemoresoop »

pluto9 wrote: post #15
onemoresoop wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drones would chase the birds away. And in cases when the birds are to be sucked by a jet's engine the autonomous drone would follow suit

> The drones would chase the birds away. Chasing requires fleeing. If the bird knows from experience that the drone won't hurt him, then why would he flee from it?

Chasing the birds in circles

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#29

Post by HanayamaTriplet »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #24
maltalex wrote: post #5

What’s worse - sucking in a bird into a jet engine or a bird-scaring drone?

Sucking a bird into a jet engine, obviously. Was this a rhetorical question? The jet engine is mounted to a plane. It's designed to withstand bird strikes without exploding - they literally blast frozen turkeys into it with an air cannon - but they can still cause engine out situations that result in crashes or emergency landings and risk the lives of the hundreds of people on board. Not to mention the huge repair co…

I think you misread the question, which could perhaps be more clearly phrased as "What’s worse to suck into a jet engine - a bird or a bird-scaring drone?"

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#30

Post by deelowe »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #24
maltalex wrote: post #5

What’s worse - sucking in a bird into a jet engine or a bird-scaring drone?

Sucking a bird into a jet engine, obviously. Was this a rhetorical question? The jet engine is mounted to a plane. It's designed to withstand bird strikes without exploding - they literally blast frozen turkeys into it with an air cannon - but they can still cause engine out situations that result in crashes or emergency landings and risk the lives of the hundreds of people on board. Not to mention the huge repair co…

I think the parent meant: What's worse to suck into a jet engine -- a bird or a bird scaring drone?
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