Young people don’t want construction jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#21

Post by 49531 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #18

I'd love to work construction. But every time I've mentioned it to my family they tell me about how it will destroy my knees and back, I'll lose fingers, get hearing damage, head injuries, and the pay is crap compared to the risk. If there was decent workplace safety (my hometown is infamous for it's poor safety standards), and a good pension program where you're expected to want to quit and do something else after 1…

This is a big reason why unions were created in the first place. Create safer working conditions, and make it possible for people who wear their bodies out can retire.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#22

Post by learc83 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

What's the endgame for construction workers? Everyone can't move into management. Many people's bodies can't handle that kind of manual labor for 40 years, and even if they could construction jobs tend to be insecure.

If you want people to make those trade offs you have to pay more.

This kind of rhetoric from companies drives me nuts. They push to remove regulations, but when the free market says they have to pay more for labor, suddenly it's not the free market driving up wages, it's a worker shortage. Now we need the government to step in and fix it. You see it most obviously with tech companies pushing for STEM in public schools and the push for more H-1Bs.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#23

Post by yellowcherry » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

tekstar wrote: post #10

These types of jobs eventually burn out your body. You used to be able to buy a house and grow a family on these wages, and eventually retire. With that no longer being the case, why would anyone with choice choose this option?

My dad did these jobs his whole life. He's in still in better shape than I've ever been and has a union pension better than anything any company has ever offered me.

So.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#24

Post by OldSchoolJohnny » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #9

crooked-v wrote: post #2

So pay them more.

There isnt a market for that: increased wages would increase house prices and the developer estimates he cant sell the house. If land were cheaper you would see rising wages.

I think companies have enjoyed historically high profits for a long time now and are simply loath to give that up. What is a reasonable, sustainable level of profit that benefits everyone? It's certainly not what we've seen for the last decade at least. Profits are sky high and wages are deeply stagnant. I've run my own company for decades and I can tell you there isn't a business person alive who will willingly say in public "we're making excellent profits" no matter the situation it's always doom and gloom and the taxes are too high and the wages are too high and there aren't enough qualified candidates etc.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#25

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17

dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.

But that costs money. Where’s my pool of desperate labor willing to accept medicorce pay with no benefits and job security. /s

Welcome to a tight labor market. May it last as long as possible until public policy catches up.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#26

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #17

dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

On point. You want people just give then good salaryies, benefits, and career growth.

Some construction jobs are better than others. In SF, for example, there are many undersea construction jobs that pay very well.

The CTO of Coinbase envisions that construction[0] as an industry is ripe for disruption, reaping the fruits of technology like VR controllable drones[1]. If you make construction like a video game, “young people” will flock to it.

[0] https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/tyler-cowen-bala...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W18Z3UnnS_0

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#27

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

craig1f wrote: post #19

The funny thing is, growing up, construction is awe-inspiring. In my last position, I worked across the street from where they were putting up two buildings. We'd gawk over how brave they must be to be up that high on the rafters.

Same. I always love looking at buildings in various stages of construction. I designed and built a shed from scratch five years ago and it was highly enjoyable (and of course a lot of hard work). Just the amount of research to figure out how to do everything properly really satisfies that "geeking out on a new hobby" urge.

I think people underestimate how bad the whole "being outside during all four seasons" aspect of these jobs is, though. Most other jobs are indoors, whether they're highly skilled (e.g. SWE) or not (e.g. fry cook).

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#28

Post by e40 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

dccoolgai wrote: post #8

Why would they? You've spent the last 30 years telling them not to do those jobs, devaluing them with globalization and de-unionizing them to make sure those jobs don't create any kind of sustainable lifestyle for the people that do them. Someone on HN a while back gave some good advice: whenever you see "people won't do X job", append in your mind the qualifier "for Y underpaid salary/benefits package".

And part of telling them not to do those jobs was the college for everyone idea. It was a good ideal, but the problem is, going to college and getting that English 4-year degree doesn't really help you get a job that pays enough to pay off those student loans and save for retirement.

What they said on Prairie Home Companion was correct, everyone does thing their child is exceptional and should go to college instead of trade school.

The truth is, some of those people working at Starbucks for minimum page, with huge debt, would be far better off had they gone to a trade school and be pulling down serious money as an electrician, etc.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#29

Post by tntn » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

rhexs wrote: post #6

crooked-v wrote: post #2

So pay them more.

No reason to do that with current immigration "policy", or lack thereof.

Quick recap:

Article: "there's a labor shortage"

'crooked-v: "So pay them more"

'rhexs: "No need," because there is plenty of cheap labor.

Something here doesn't add up.

Re: Young people don’t want construction jobs

#30

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 3:43 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Wow, the entire article doesn't mention once what the average wage for entry-level construction workers is. That's probably a huge part of the puzzle -- to omit that seems almost intentionally misleading, or at least bad journalism. Also, construction is a job that's notoriously hard on your body. You can't count on being able to do it into your 60s like office work, and one bad accident can end your career in constr…

Seems like $14.07.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Labore...

Even "Construction Worker" doesn't bring it up much ($14.75), which means there's nothing in that career directly.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Worker...

The next step in that career is to be a manager or foreman. The Foreman only gets $22.36. ($38k/yr)

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Construction_Forema...

What does a college grad make? $50k/yr.

http://time.com/money/collection-post/3829776/heres-what-the...

Carpenter, handyman and general contractor do better than construction.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Home_Renovatio...

So yeah, I'm not surprised that people aren't excited about a career in construction.