How do we know that reality itself isn't a mass hallucination?
Because it's shared. Assuming you accept the existence of other minds, what makes reality real, is that it's shared. Schizophrenic hallucinations are no less real to the sufferer than so-called normal experiences. What makes reality real is that every shares the experience. That raises interesting questions about what is real and what is not, but also questions about how much of reality is really the residue of cultu…
A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
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Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#22Consider LSD hallucinations, for example. I recall especially complex entangled "ropes". Brightly colored, and in constant motion. Both spinning on axis, and writhing. But the motions weren't just three dimensional. There was a sense of stuff rotating and moving through other dimensions.
Also, the "ropes" had lots of detail. Almost like strings of characters. A little like that G/E/B block on the cover of Hofstadter's GEB. I also recall this guy who argued that all Hebrew letters were two dimensional projections of some multidimensional object. He released a video, which reminded me of LSD hallucinations. Very Kabalistic. And perhaps one inspiration for Aronofsky's "Pi".
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#23Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it's shared. Assuming you accept the existence of other minds, what makes reality real, is that it's shared. Schizophrenic hallucinations are no less real to the sufferer than so-called normal experiences. What makes reality real is that every shares the experience. That raises interesting questions about what is real and what is not, but also questions about how much of reality is really the residue of cultu…
But people have wildly differing interpretations of reality.
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've mentioned this before on HN, but I don't understand why SAH is seen as a "solid" theory. Psychedelics might increase some cognitive or perceptual faculties, but McKenna never gives any physical mechanics for how this could possibly lead to genetic alteration, i.e. how it creates any selection pressure for intelligence.
As someone who bas taken a bunch of LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, and DMT, as well as listened to a bunch of Terrence McKenna...the stoned ape theory is total horse shit. It’s a slap in the face to evolutionary biology and just a completely nonsensical “theory”
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#26I've held this theory on my own after experiencing geometric shapes while hallucinating after smoking a lot of marijuana years back. I sat down closed my eyes and experienced an intense feeling of flying through what I can only explain as the starfield screen saver from Windows but with colored 2D shapes heavily dominated by hexagons of various sizes. During that experience I realized that I might be experiencing the…
I've mentioned this before on HN, but I don't understand why SAH is seen as a "solid" theory. Psychedelics might increase some cognitive or perceptual faculties, but McKenna never gives any physical mechanics for how this could possibly lead to genetic alteration, i.e. how it creates any selection pressure for intelligence.
Evolutionary theory is founded mostly on untouchable mechanics that operate at nearly geologic time scales, so we look, and we see slight incremental changes, and say to ourselves, yeah that holds up the rest.
But at it's core, the fundamental question is: Why did the human brain explode onto the scene? Why wasn't that change gradual? Why did it only happen once? Was there an accelerant in the mix?
To say that it happened fast is to speak in relative terms. It still would have happened across multiple generations, in movements of 10 and 20 years, according to sexual maturation. But to jump the rails, the change would have had to represent an ignition of sorts, to kick off a chain reaction that spreads outward from primary events, and is easily replicable crossing regional boundaries, once a successful game changer is cemented as viable.
The human brain isn't totally unique in it's structure, if you look at elephants and dolphins. But the relative brain size to body size ratio, as an emergent evolutionary trait, seems to be pretty unique.
Diet sounds like a plausible point of origin, when considering that the brain is a nutrition-greedy organ. So, the Stoned Ape Hypothesis is reasonable, in the sense that it layers nutritional augmentation on top of evolutionary theory. On the one hand, you still have evolutionary mechanics as the operating framework, but the dietary augmentation produces behavioral effects that change mating strategies.
So then, selection processes take over, and the successful live, and the others die. The successful produce alike offspring, and combinations of traits group together. But all clustered around this drug induced behavioral mess, where you find these apes getting into catnip and going nuts.
The idea is not without precedent. Consider the Greek Oracle, as a temple ventilated with toxic volcanic gases, acting as the mind altering substance. People willfully producing an altered state, by effectively huffing volatile, oxygen depriving vapors not unlike spray paint fumes, to gain insight and augment decision making.
Which brings us around to the crux of the idea. It should be possible to replicate the process, even at a small scale, by modeling the scenario with other animals. Usually mice have a short enough lifespan to push their genes around with careful engineering. So, what about talking mice that modify their environment? Could drugs and rampant sex make that happen in a time frame comparable to the fossile record for humans?
But geeze, talking mice that invent and implement conceptual ideas? What would we do with them, once they're here? What if they escape the lab? Would their population explode as an invasive species? Capable of direct lilliputian competition with humans?
Once the invasive species status is realized, all the rest fits into place. We wouldn't want to let the mice escape into the wild. So the only missing piece, regarding the mechanics of the idea, is the bridge in between dumb mice and smart mice.
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#27Is this 'hallucination' though? Or just some weird stuff happening in visual processing? I underwent some very serious periods of sleep deprivation (Army) and our 'hallucinations' were of a totally different kind: having conversations with people that were not there, seeing things that were not there, misidentifying people whom you know really well who are right on front of your face, taking on different personalitie…
Is there a meaningful difference?
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've mentioned this before on HN, but I don't understand why SAH is seen as a "solid" theory. Psychedelics might increase some cognitive or perceptual faculties, but McKenna never gives any physical mechanics for how this could possibly lead to genetic alteration, i.e. how it creates any selection pressure for intelligence.
I think the Stoned Ape Hypothesis (sah) is reasonable within the context of a social lawlessness found in the state of nature. The chaos of the animal kingdom would permit the transgression of norms among primates, with little consequence, and it wouldn't matter as much for animals to be indulging in mind altering substances, if other needs were all essentially met by the surrounding environment. Evolutionary theory…
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who bas taken a bunch of LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, and DMT, as well as listened to a bunch of Terrence McKenna...the stoned ape theory is total horse shit. It’s a slap in the face to evolutionary biology and just a completely nonsensical “theory”
Not the stoned ape theory. I don't believe that at all. But the overall theory of geometric shapes and the relationship with the interworkings of our brain.
Re: A Mathematical Theory for Why People Hallucinate
#30Is this 'hallucination' though? Or just some weird stuff happening in visual processing? I underwent some very serious periods of sleep deprivation (Army) and our 'hallucinations' were of a totally different kind: having conversations with people that were not there, seeing things that were not there, misidentifying people whom you know really well who are right on front of your face, taking on different personalitie…
> Is this 'hallucination' though? Or just some weird stuff happening in visual processing? Is there a meaningful difference?
On LSD (at least up to moderate doses), you don't hallucinate anything that doesn't exist. You don't see anything that isn't there, or hear voices, everything is just an altered version of reality.
Hallucinations from sleep deprivation (and certain drugs) are different though, you do start to see things that aren't there, often in the corner of your vision, and you do start to genuinely hear voices that don't exist. It's a surreal experience when you're suffering from severe sleep deprivation and you can hear your family talking to you, despite knowing that in reality they're 1000 miles away.