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Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

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Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#21

Post by shawn »

Zelphyr wrote: post #16
axlee wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever says web is "easy" never had to build or maintain a large web application. The ecosystem is incredibly deep and constantly evolving, to the point where best practices change every six months.

Not to mention; web developers are constantly having to context switch between HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Old school days they also had a backend language like PHP or Perl. Many still do. Then there was/is SQL. By my count, that's at least five different languages to know all at once.

“Look at how many plates I can juggle at once!”

“Aren’t you just trying to walk to the store?”

“Look! I added a fifth! Everyone do this now!”

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#22

Post by sverige »

fermienrico wrote: post #11
pmichaud wrote: post #4

This was entertaining to read, I like your style. I also find the webdev low status pretty unjustified. It's true that it's less mathy than other disciplines, but at scale, "webdev" is every bit as architecturally challenging as anything else, and in some cases moreso because of the sheer number of different technologies and stacks you have to be fluent in to make it all work together.

I presume the hatred comes from the purists looking down on the entire mess of web stack: PHP gets a bad rep, JavaScript is at the butt of every joke from an embedded C developer, and the front end of the stack is a total nightmare - CSS, w3c and all. Web Dev is hard __precisely__ because of this mess!

I think it's the fact that it's a mess that makes people who strive to write correct code and keep it all neat and tidy look down on webdev. It's sort of a variation of the "clean" vs. "messy" roommate conflict. Messy loses status in an industry that aspires to be "scientific." Not that it should be that way, just my take on similar observations.

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#23

Post by nerdponx »

SCdF wrote: post #3

> when I told other software people I’m a web developer, I got treated like shit. I was a lower class of coder because I wasn’t “solving cool problems” because making web sites is easy. Of all the stupid arrogant awfulness in tech that has crossed my path this one is definitely high on the list of the most baffling. Web dev is the hardest and most intimidating dev work I've ever done, by a country mile. (Whether that…

This is nuts. The reason I avoid web dev is that it's complicated and hectic.

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#24

Post by throwawaymath »

iwangulenko wrote: post #20

As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be considered as a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Recruiters use an intuitive approach to conditional probability. Given only the info alone (if someone did JQuery or Clojure) exposes you to two bell curves, with the X-axis being "programming ability…

> As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that - statistically speaking - it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time.

Would you care to share those statistics? While we're at it let's also be sure to define "good engineer."

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#25

Post by parrellel »

throwawaymath wrote: post #24
iwangulenko wrote: post #20

As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be considered as a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Recruiters use an intuitive approach to conditional probability. Given only the info alone (if someone did JQuery or Clojure) exposes you to two bell curves, with the X-axis being "programming ability…

> As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that - statistically speaking - it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Would you care to share those statistics? While we're at it let's also be sure to define "good engineer."

He just said it was holistic.

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#26

Post by machiavelli1024 »

iwangulenko wrote: post #20

As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be considered as a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Recruiters use an intuitive approach to conditional probability. Given only the info alone (if someone did JQuery or Clojure) exposes you to two bell curves, with the X-axis being "programming ability…

Yep. Funny that HackerNews seem to be unable to wrap their head around the fact that prejudice is just applied Bayesian statistics.

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#27

Post by s3nnyy »

throwawaymath wrote: post #24
iwangulenko wrote: post #20

As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be considered as a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Recruiters use an intuitive approach to conditional probability. Given only the info alone (if someone did JQuery or Clojure) exposes you to two bell curves, with the X-axis being "programming ability…

> As someone running a technical recruitment agency, I can assure you that - statistically speaking - it is true that someone having built stuff in Clojure is more likely to be a good engineer than someone who did JQuery all the time. Would you care to share those statistics? While we're at it let's also be sure to define "good engineer."

Experience looking at thousands of CVs and talking to people who are behind the CVs.

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#28

Post by [deleted] »

SCdF wrote: post #3

> when I told other software people I’m a web developer, I got treated like shit. I was a lower class of coder because I wasn’t “solving cool problems” because making web sites is easy. Of all the stupid arrogant awfulness in tech that has crossed my path this one is definitely high on the list of the most baffling. Web dev is the hardest and most intimidating dev work I've ever done, by a country mile. (Whether that…

[deleted]

Re: Signaling in tech is some fucked up shit (2016)

#30

Post by narag »

SCdF wrote: post #3

> when I told other software people I’m a web developer, I got treated like shit. I was a lower class of coder because I wasn’t “solving cool problems” because making web sites is easy. Of all the stupid arrogant awfulness in tech that has crossed my path this one is definitely high on the list of the most baffling. Web dev is the hardest and most intimidating dev work I've ever done, by a country mile. (Whether that…

Of all the stupid arrogant awfulness in tech that has crossed my path this one is definitely high on the list of the most baffling.

The reason is how a lot of companies do web: sloppyly and pay peanuts.

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