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The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

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21–30 of 142 posts

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#21
post #5

I wish there was an equivalent of CI and peer-reviewed pull-requested contribution to their system, to ease collaborative improvement to the methods. You'd really want many sets of eyes able to look at all aspects of the drugs to vastly reduce risk.

that sounds like a magnificent startup idea that I completely lack the expertise to execute on. hopefully someone else tackles it.

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#22
post #16

> “The rhetoric that is espoused by people who defend intellectual property law is that this is theft,” Laufer told me. “If you accept that axiomatically, then by the same logic when you withhold access to lifesaving medication that's murder. From a moral standpoint it's an imperative to enact theft to prevent murder.” If it's murder to apply intellectual property law and withhold drugs...what do we call the untold n…

I see your point but I think that there is a middle ground to be struck here. I don't think medical care and drug research can be ethically applied upon the basis of economic motivation alone. Through this lens Laufer makes some sense. You raise a strong and valid counterpoint however. There is currently a huge profit motive to develop new medical treatments (so long as they are indeed profitable). What will the effects be if we reduce that profit motive? This is a complex question that I think requires a nuanced answer that takes into account both our moral responsibility to take care of the sick but also recognizes the incentives innate to human nature

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#23
>“...the price of Daraprim hasn’t changed,” he said. He reached into his pocket and produced a handful of white pills. “I guess I better hand out some more,” Laufer said as he tossed the Daraprim into the audience.

I found it hard to keep reading after that. What's it called when people get so emotional about a cause they just start acting irrationally and doing more harm than good?

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#24
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if we could just rich people to find their projects. /s

Ok. Let's imagine a world where he achieves his dream. We've democratized access to molecular synthesis with no quality issues. Anyone, anywhere can safely and effectively produce any medicine of their choosing, without regard for IP laws. Now what? Well, on the one hand, everyone on earth will have cheap, timely access to every medicine that currently exists. That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, who's going to…

Well, I can think of a few countries that might find it worthwhile to invest in the health of their citizens. In America we’ll have to make it part of the department of defense in order to get it funded.

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#25

...Chematica’s database is currently posted on a password protected website on the dark web. During his talk at HOPE this year, Laufer implored the audience to help with cracking the password and releasing the data into the world. They're talking about an encrypted file, right? If Merck just had this posted on "the dark web", constantly hammering them with bad passwords would probably clue them in. Incidentally, whic…

RAR files can be cracked offline.

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#26
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if we could just rich people to find their projects. /s

Ok. Let's imagine a world where he achieves his dream. We've democratized access to molecular synthesis with no quality issues. Anyone, anywhere can safely and effectively produce any medicine of their choosing, without regard for IP laws. Now what? Well, on the one hand, everyone on earth will have cheap, timely access to every medicine that currently exists. That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, who's going to…

I suppose for the same reason people still create movies, despite the fact that they are easily copied and expensive to produce.

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#27
post #25

...Chematica’s database is currently posted on a password protected website on the dark web. During his talk at HOPE this year, Laufer implored the audience to help with cracking the password and releasing the data into the world. They're talking about an encrypted file, right? If Merck just had this posted on "the dark web", constantly hammering them with bad passwords would probably clue them in. Incidentally, whic…

RAR files can be cracked offline.

Sure, but "password protected website" is a weird synonym for "RAR file".

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#28
Michaels first HOPE talk in 2016 is really worth watching - https://archive.org/details/livestream-130731041.

I was at his 2018 talk and the Vice article did an excellent job of summing it up. Usually the HOPE videos come online a few weeks after the conference (it was last weekend).

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#29
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Let's imagine a world where he achieves his dream. We've democratized access to molecular synthesis with no quality issues. Anyone, anywhere can safely and effectively produce any medicine of their choosing, without regard for IP laws. Now what? Well, on the one hand, everyone on earth will have cheap, timely access to every medicine that currently exists. That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, who's going to…

I suppose for the same reason people still create movies, despite the fact that they are easily copied and expensive to produce.

If you want your medicine quality to go from hollywood blockbuster to home movie, I guess that's viable :).

Re: The Four Thieves Vinegar Collective

#30
post #24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Let's imagine a world where he achieves his dream. We've democratized access to molecular synthesis with no quality issues. Anyone, anywhere can safely and effectively produce any medicine of their choosing, without regard for IP laws. Now what? Well, on the one hand, everyone on earth will have cheap, timely access to every medicine that currently exists. That's pretty awesome. On the other hand, who's going to…

Well, I can think of a few countries that might find it worthwhile to invest in the health of their citizens. In America we’ll have to make it part of the department of defense in order to get it funded.

Yes, socialized funding is a viable, serious option. There's reasons to be skeptical of the results it would produce IMO, but it's definitely a legitimate proposal.
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