The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.” • Hacker News Board

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#21

Post by cocacola1 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #18

larkeith wrote: post #7

Personally, I cannot fathom finding it preferable, or even acceptable, for Amazon to attempt to displace my local library; Much like bookstores, there's an essential soul to them any corporate invader like Amazon lacks utterly. I have fond memories of summers spent trawling the stacks, afternoons at a table with friends working on homework, DnD sessions in the private meeting rooms, and browsing old stock auctions fo…

Expenditure of public money on an endeavor should not be driven by romantic notions like whether something has "essential soul." Tax money is a scarce resource. Money that's spent on libraries is tax money that's not available to offer better lunches to needy children. That's the calculus. Our county library system gets $22 million a year in tax dollars to service 2.4 million visits. Could Amazon meet those needs mor…

To bad Amazon bookstores are such a disappointment.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#22

Post by Sharlin » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #14

Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

>”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Pretty much the tech version of "I am a W.A.S.P., I pretend everybody that has different economic, social, and cultural differences from me doesn't exist"

They’re not wrong when they say that the greatest privilege of all is the blissful lack of awareness of your privileges.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#23

Post by gbear605 » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:07 PM UTC

jerkstate wrote: post #6

When I was a young child, the library was a place for me to go to sit on a beanbag and read childrens books for hours while my mom studied for her masters degree. Now 2/3 of library patrons are homeless or struggling with addiction, and some parents may not wish to leave their children unattended in such an environment. I don't think Amazon has the answers but I see a natural tension between welcoming vagrants and ma…

Before you propose altering libraries across the country to fix this, check to make sure that this is an issue that libraries across the country face. I suspect that this is an issue in cities, but not at all outside of them.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#24

Post by ashelmire » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #10

chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

> because education and information are almost invaluable Citation needed.

Can we cite third world nations and past human history? Or do you want a detailed list of every time that lack of education or information negatively affected individuals, regions, economies, or governments? The list would be several billion lines long and no human could possibly compile it. I'm sure r/AskHistorians could give you a list of some of the more entertaining examples if you're interested.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#25

Post by dmreedy » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #14

Sharlin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

>”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Pretty much the tech version of "I am a W.A.S.P., I pretend everybody that has different economic, social, and cultural differences from me doesn't exist"

or, more typically in my experience, (and somewhat more worryingly), "I don't understand that people with economic, social, and cultural differences exist".

To paraphrase Eddie Izzard, it's like the traveling Briton visiting Afghanistan. "Sausage, egg and chips please... you do speak English, you just don't try!"

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#26

Post by BurningFrog » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

Sharlin wrote: post #9

chris_mc wrote: post #2

If you think libraries are useless, try going to one a few times and talk to the staff about the services they provide. I'd personally say libraries are one of the government organizations with the best return on investment, because education and information are almost invaluable. I'll fight a war over libraries, no joke.

Last time I read a library-related discussion on HN, one of the sentiments expressed was basically ”I download ebooks, why would anyone need a library?” Boggles the mind. There was also a bizarre comment about libraries being only funded to keep a bunch of otherwise useless civil servants employed.

Let me steelman that argument.

Libraries were invented because information was only available on printed (or hand written) books, which were very expensive and scarce resources.

Now information can be available almost literally for free and instantly, to anywhere. If the institutional inertia of libraries didn't exist today, would they really be invented as they are?

https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Steel_man

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#27

Post by brianzelip » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

Libraries provide lots of value for non-“impoverished, underserved, and most vulnerable populations” too. I manage a maker space in an academic library on a health sciences campus. I collaborate with researchers to bring new ideas to life, and provide free public workshops around emerging technologies (for example, creating a 3D printable anatomical model from CT scan data, leveraging GitHub for scholarship, and more). My colleagues provide instructional workshops as well, and collaborate with researchers around systematic reviews, bioinformatics, and research data management.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#28

Post by CPLX » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #18

larkeith wrote: post #7

Personally, I cannot fathom finding it preferable, or even acceptable, for Amazon to attempt to displace my local library; Much like bookstores, there's an essential soul to them any corporate invader like Amazon lacks utterly. I have fond memories of summers spent trawling the stacks, afternoons at a table with friends working on homework, DnD sessions in the private meeting rooms, and browsing old stock auctions fo…

Expenditure of public money on an endeavor should not be driven by romantic notions like whether something has "essential soul." Tax money is a scarce resource. Money that's spent on libraries is tax money that's not available to offer better lunches to needy children. That's the calculus. Our county library system gets $22 million a year in tax dollars to service 2.4 million visits. Could Amazon meet those needs mor…

> Could Amazon meet those needs more cheaply? If so, that is a win.

I question your premise. There are other KPI's in this world besides numerical financial efficiency.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#29

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

zitterbewegung wrote: post #8

All of the local libraries near me have a 3D printer. One library close by offers a coworkers space I can borrow a Roku and aLaptop. . Libraries don't need distruption they are already doing it themselves.

That's one thing I have noticed at the libraries close to me. They are pretty good at adapting to the needs of their neighborhood and pretty creative.

They seem to be one of the places where poor people get exposed to things they typically would never be able to use. 3D printers are one example.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#30

Post by ashelmire » Fri, Jul 27, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #20

noja wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Citation needed. Ask a librarian.

Is a librarian going to give me sound statistical research, or regurgitate shibboleths about the importance of education?

There's something ironic about a lawyer and university employee decrying education. Perhaps we should hit you over the head a few times until you forget everything you've ever learned and see how well the rest of your life turns out?