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No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

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Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#21
post #15

I travel to the US regularly, trying to use a foreign credit card there (especially to buy gas - what is my zip code?) is a real pain - unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless

90210 Canadians can use the first 3 of their postal code.

Except our postal codes are A#A #A#. I've definitely had trouble buying gas at American pumps before, and the staff couldn't figure out a solution.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#22

Where I live (Beijing, China) is far ahead: - Most (or maybe all) beggars accept mobile payment by WeChat and/or AliPay - I cannot recall any time in the past year where a shop, fruit stall or street vendor could not accept mobile payment - There is a high-end food court nearby where none of the restaurants accept cash. If you can't pay by card/mobile, you need to go to a special counter on the ground floor, and exch…

ahead

For varying definitions of "ahead" in this context.

Being monitored, followed, tracked, tabulated, bought and sold doesn't sound like "ahead."

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#23
post #15

I travel to the US regularly, trying to use a foreign credit card there (especially to buy gas - what is my zip code?) is a real pain - unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless

unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless

That's a good thing. As people are learning in other countries like Sweden.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#24
post #5

Of course you can rationalize that 3% is a reasonable cost and approximately a wash compared to the expense of dealing with cash. But if you're a small coffe house, and sell a $3.00 coffee, and are paying a typical 2.9% + $0.30 per charge, that $0.30 is ten percent of your sale. That's a huge cost. Transaction fees need to come way down for plastic to beat cash on small sales.

>paying a typical 2.9% + $0.30 per charge

that's for paypal/square, which usually mean card not present, low volume and flat (fee) rate. bigger merchants usually go with a payment processor that offers interchange+, which significantly reduces the fees. a quick check of https://www.adyen.com/pricing/full-list?navItem=northamerica says that visa cards only pay $0.12 + interchange (1 or 2%).

edit: visa interchange rates https://www.helcim.com/us/visa-interchange-rates/

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#25
post #15

I travel to the US regularly, trying to use a foreign credit card there (especially to buy gas - what is my zip code?) is a real pain - unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless

unlike the rest of the western world the US is far from being able to go cashless That's a good thing. As people are learning in other countries like Sweden.

It was a little strange, I was in Stockholm for two weeks and would have not have seen a single paper bill except for the glance I caught of one as a older man got in an argument with a bar owner, who "made it right" by quickly handing him back some cash.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#26

To echo what others have said, cashless systems -- especially in fast food chains -- are a quick way to discriminate against a whole population of the underbanked. I was in Dos Toros (burrito chain mentioned early in the article) about a month ago, and the woman in line ahead of me didn't have a card. She got so embarrassed at the register despite having ample cash to pay for her meal. I paid for her with my card, sh…

Can't you buy a prepaid debit card at a Walmart?

I think it's probably fine to let the business decide whatever means of payment they want to accept.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#27
Here's a weird question. Why hasn't the U.S. Government made an electronic cash platform with zero transaction fees yet? This should be something that falls under the treasury, it would help cut down on fraud and provide a backbone for small businesses and large businesses alike. Being able to pay debts is basic infrastructure for an economy and transaction fees are a giant tax on small businesses and large businesses alike.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#28

To echo what others have said, cashless systems -- especially in fast food chains -- are a quick way to discriminate against a whole population of the underbanked. I was in Dos Toros (burrito chain mentioned early in the article) about a month ago, and the woman in line ahead of me didn't have a card. She got so embarrassed at the register despite having ample cash to pay for her meal. I paid for her with my card, sh…

I feel weird spending at places like this at all. Not just because of what it does to other people, but also how it modifies my own behavior. What if it had been me? I can't leave the house with just a twenty in my pocket? That's not good enough?

I have to stop, wait, find my wallet, make sure it has a card with a balance on it, know what that balance is, make sure the card isn't damaged (demagnetized, scuffed chip contacts, curled up in the heat of the clothes drier), and if I don't have this singleton plastic token that I cannot easily replace or trade, I can't go to certain places?

Just because your cash register is an iPad, doesn't mean you can't handle real money too. What's really going on? Why would a restaurant prefer anything over cash? In my experience, food service normally loves cash, because they can report it differently. Tips are quasi-off-the-books, within a certain margin. So there must be some kind of motive to hook into a payment provider.

If farmers markets, bake sales and lemonade stands can handle a simple cash box, any restaurant certainly can.

But really, we know Dos Toros is a franchise with more than just an iPad for a register, so for sure they're doing something with customer data behind the scenes. Although how much is that worth to a burrito joint? Perhaps it's free payment processing in exchange for exclusive cashless operations plus a data agreement.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#29

One thing that Neuromancer had, but we never got, was credsticks. I want a fee-free electronic wallet that is anonymous. Also, we really need a law saying that the credit card companies (and others in the toolchain) can't use our data for anything but payment processing. I'm sick of being tracked by my transactions.

Well, it's easy to write "credsticks" into a novel, but rather hard to actually implement them. How would they work? The closest thing we have are probably physical Bitcoins, but there you need to trust the issuer not to have a copy of the private keys.

Re: No Shirt, No Swipe, No Service

#30
post #5

Of course you can rationalize that 3% is a reasonable cost and approximately a wash compared to the expense of dealing with cash. But if you're a small coffe house, and sell a $3.00 coffee, and are paying a typical 2.9% + $0.30 per charge, that $0.30 is ten percent of your sale. That's a huge cost. Transaction fees need to come way down for plastic to beat cash on small sales.

Banks and cc companies aren’t pushing this because of money, it’s because of data. The fees are honestly just icing on top, and often, even a legacy that you can completely avoid at some companies.

The largest bank in our country let’s you link you can card (we have a national card that’s both a debit and a credit card in one without really being either), regardless of what bank you use, and they let you use it for free. You can instantly and feelers send money to anyone with the app, you can also use it like Apple/google pay completely feeless. Small business can get a free recipient thingie but larger business have to pay the bank for usage, so for them it works like a regular digital payment system.

Anyway, the real currency is data. The cash register scanner tracks every individual item you buy, the time, the location and so on and because this app is universal, our largest bank knows a lot more about our habbits than google does.

It’s the same for CC companies. They know what you buy at the pharmacy, they know how much alcohol you buy and so on.

Sorry for the bad English, I’m not even sure what stuff like the scanner at cash registers is called in my own language so it’s hard to translate to English.

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