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MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

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Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#21

Post by satysin »

I got my 15" 2.6Ghz i7 model yesterday and I love it.

Obviously there are issues as many have reported but I am using this for iOS and Android development and this thing is a good 30-45% faster for builds compared to my top-spec 2017 model. The Android emulator starts up (cold boot not from save state) faster as well (just measured it at 9 seconds to boot a Nexus 5X API 28 AVD vs 16 seconds on my 2017 i7).

Once things have settled down a bit I will look into things again but I am in no rush to start modifying firmware values when, for my needs, everything is great.

For those interested the new keyboard is a little "softer" and quieter. My wife commented on how different it sounds. I would say it sound similar to a Dell XPS 15 or ThinkPad T480 in terms of how loud it is.

The TrueTone option for the display is lovely for programming imho. Really nice little new feature. Other than that not much has changed externally though. It is still a very nice machine and I hope Apple tweaks things to address the thermal throttling people are seeing. For development though it is a dream.

Edit: Seems Apple has released an update to fix this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17603063

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#22

Post by slantyyz »

fhood wrote: post #11

I don't understand how this happened. Apple is a company that built it's empire on paying a premium for reliability and ease of use. There have been mistakes in the past, but this is something that should have been caught immediately, which suggests that they were aware of it at release. Is it just nostalgia goggles telling me that Jobs would not have let these out the door?

While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel issue no?

It appears the i9 isn't a good fit for thin and light laptops (Apple's also not the only one using the i9 in this form factor). Of course, a laptop using this i9 and properly cooling it is not going to be small or pretty[1].

Getting back to Apple, there are a couple of ways of looking at this.

For people who are bursting (as opposed to doing long running sustained loads) the i9 is probably the fastest Macbook Pro you can get. For people who are using optimized media apps like FCP, this is also not necessarily a bad buy, since you'll likely reap the benefits of the faster CPU.

For people who are doing sustained loads and/or running non-optimized apps like Premiere, this is probably not a good Macbook Pro to buy. For people who care a lot about getting advertised baseline clock rates, irrespective of bottom line performance gains, this is also not the Macbook Pro to buy.

For some, it's an easy choice, and for others, it's complicated.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeUlGnNUut8

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#24

Post by ubercore »

slantyyz wrote: post #22
fhood wrote: post #11

I don't understand how this happened. Apple is a company that built it's empire on paying a premium for reliability and ease of use. There have been mistakes in the past, but this is something that should have been caught immediately, which suggests that they were aware of it at release. Is it just nostalgia goggles telling me that Jobs would not have let these out the door?

While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel issue no? It appears the i9 isn't a good fit for thin and light laptops (Apple's also not the only one using the i9 in this form factor). Of course, a laptop using this i9 and properly cooling it is not going to be small or pretty[1]. Getting back to Apple, there are a couple of ways of looking at this. For people who are bursting (as oppose…

> While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel issue no?

I mean, Apple sourced the chip and shipped the laptop, and you pay Apple. I don't see how you _can't_ blame Apple engineering for this?

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#25

Post by slantyyz »

ubercore wrote: post #24
slantyyz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel issue no? It appears the i9 isn't a good fit for thin and light laptops (Apple's also not the only one using the i9 in this form factor). Of course, a laptop using this i9 and properly cooling it is not going to be small or pretty[1]. Getting back to Apple, there are a couple of ways of looking at this. For people who are bursting (as oppose…

> While Apple's not blameless in the matter, this seems to be more of an Intel issue no? I mean, Apple sourced the chip and shipped the laptop, and you pay Apple. I don't see how you _can't_ blame Apple engineering for this?

> I don't see how you _can't_ blame Apple engineering for this?

Which is why I said "not blameless"

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#26

Post by Exuma »

satysin wrote: post #21

I got my 15" 2.6Ghz i7 model yesterday and I love it. Obviously there are issues as many have reported but I am using this for iOS and Android development and this thing is a good 30-45% faster for builds compared to my top-spec 2017 model. The Android emulator starts up (cold boot not from save state) faster as well (just measured it at 9 seconds to boot a Nexus 5X API 28 AVD vs 16 seconds on my 2017 i7). Once thing…

Have you used Butterfly v.1 to compare it to? I absolutely hated v.1 with a passion (it's like typing on a flat desk), I absolutely LOVED v.2 with a passion. I'm wondering how I will like v.3...

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#27

Post by tzahola »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #19
no1youknowz wrote: post #7

On TWiT[0]. They had the keyboard up to 115f sometimes, some other videos on youtube have gone much higher. I've also seen a couple of youtubers and the number is growing, returning their macbooks [1], [2], due to the performance and the number is growing daily. I really think this issue is down to a few things. 1) The need from Apple to be thinner each iteration, is really costing them the ability to have better the…

Similarly, my 2012 Air (8gb RAM, 500gb SSD) is working just fine, and I could probably get quite a few more years out of it. It astonishes me how well that old laptop does what I need, considering any laptop from 2006 or 2004 would have been slow as molasses in 2012, and total garbage today.

Moore’s law is over.

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#28

Post by [deleted] »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #19
no1youknowz wrote: post #7

On TWiT[0]. They had the keyboard up to 115f sometimes, some other videos on youtube have gone much higher. I've also seen a couple of youtubers and the number is growing, returning their macbooks [1], [2], due to the performance and the number is growing daily. I really think this issue is down to a few things. 1) The need from Apple to be thinner each iteration, is really costing them the ability to have better the…

Similarly, my 2012 Air (8gb RAM, 500gb SSD) is working just fine, and I could probably get quite a few more years out of it. It astonishes me how well that old laptop does what I need, considering any laptop from 2006 or 2004 would have been slow as molasses in 2012, and total garbage today.

[deleted]

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#29

Post by hyper2grams »

opencl wrote: post #18
fhood wrote: post #11

I don't understand how this happened. Apple is a company that built it's empire on paying a premium for reliability and ease of use. There have been mistakes in the past, but this is something that should have been caught immediately, which suggests that they were aware of it at release. Is it just nostalgia goggles telling me that Jobs would not have let these out the door?

The Apple III had a 100% failure rate because Steve Jobs personally insisted that it have neither cooling fans nor vents.

So they're truly living up to his legacy.

Re: MacBook Pro throttling not a CPU issue, but rather power throttling of the VRM

#30

Post by satysin »

Exuma wrote: post #26
satysin wrote: post #21

I got my 15" 2.6Ghz i7 model yesterday and I love it. Obviously there are issues as many have reported but I am using this for iOS and Android development and this thing is a good 30-45% faster for builds compared to my top-spec 2017 model. The Android emulator starts up (cold boot not from save state) faster as well (just measured it at 9 seconds to boot a Nexus 5X API 28 AVD vs 16 seconds on my 2017 i7). Once thing…

Have you used Butterfly v.1 to compare it to? I absolutely hated v.1 with a passion (it's like typing on a flat desk), I absolutely LOVED v.2 with a passion. I'm wondering how I will like v.3...

Yes I have used all 3 butterfly keyboards. I agree the first gen was awful. 2nd felt great but was quite loud[0] and had the issues with dust obviously. This is very much like 2nd gen with just a very very subtle softness to it. It feels really to me. I think if you love 2nd you will love 3rd even more.

[0] The whole "omg it is so loud!!!" thing kind of made me laugh as everyone that I knew who made such a complaint had a mech keyboard with some obnoxiously loud cherry mx switch in it. I mean yes I did feel the 1st and 2nd gen butterfly keyboards were too loud but they were still quieter than any mech keyboard I have used!

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