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The case for copying business ideas

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Re: The case for copying business ideas

#21

Post by jacksmith21006 »

shubhamjain wrote: post #18

There are probably very few original ideas anyway. Google wasn't new, search engines already existed. Yahoo! wasn't new, web directories already existed. If you trace it hard enough, you could get to filling cabinets and folders. Over the years, I have realized that the idea of 'idea' is itself problematic. It implies that you can describe something very complex with a simple phrase (in hindsight, of course). What wa…

Sometimes the key is taking a new approach and that is what makes the difference.

I am old and remember at the time Google was started the thinking was get them to your site and keep them on your site.

It is all about engagement. Well Google did a complete 180 from the conventional thinking and instead tried to get them their answer quick and send them on their way. Or the exact opposite industry thinking.

Google since has done the same with several others things in the business realm like this example but even far more in the technical realm. Where they did 180 from the conventional wisdom and their approach turned out to be the better approach.

I have often thought why Google is able to do this while most companies struggle with unique thinking or coming up with new solution? I can only explain it is because of culture and there must be someway they can tell in the interview process.

But be curious on why others think Google is able to do this in a consistent manner? What is the ingredient that makes it possible?

Or is because there is no penalty for trying and failing at Google so they get the attempts?

A perfect example as I type this is Fuchsia and in particular the Zircon kernel.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#23

Post by beaconstudios »

shubhamjain wrote: post #18

There are probably very few original ideas anyway. Google wasn't new, search engines already existed. Yahoo! wasn't new, web directories already existed. If you trace it hard enough, you could get to filling cabinets and folders. Over the years, I have realized that the idea of 'idea' is itself problematic. It implies that you can describe something very complex with a simple phrase (in hindsight, of course). What wa…

or to put it another way - execution trumps ideation. A great idea executed badly (or even mediocrely) will still suck, but an average idea executed to perfection will have the opportunity to seize the market.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#24

Post by Hasknewbie »

It should be noted that the concept of originality and its associated "mighty pioneer Vs lowly copiers" mindset is mainly a Western cultural artifact. For example in China during most of its history if you wanted to become, say, a renowned painter, you were expected to spend your formative years copying the masters, because in that culture mastering your craft is (much) more important than being original.

I don't hold originality in that much high regard for two reasons: first, it tends to downplay the part that's not original, and most of the time that's most of the product. Everything Is A Remix [1]. And second, I would have more respect for distinct products if they didn't result in endless copyright/patent extensions -- it becomes a bit too easy to say it was "your idea" if it applies to stuff created 60 years ago. At some point it should become part of the baseline, instead of undue revenue for rent-seekers.

[1] https://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#25

Post by snarf21 »

beaconstudios wrote: post #23
shubhamjain wrote: post #18

There are probably very few original ideas anyway. Google wasn't new, search engines already existed. Yahoo! wasn't new, web directories already existed. If you trace it hard enough, you could get to filling cabinets and folders. Over the years, I have realized that the idea of 'idea' is itself problematic. It implies that you can describe something very complex with a simple phrase (in hindsight, of course). What wa…

or to put it another way - execution trumps ideation. A great idea executed badly (or even mediocrely) will still suck, but an average idea executed to perfection will have the opportunity to seize the market.

Exactly. My quote is ideas are nothing and at best a head start. Execution is everything and execution at scale is legendary.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#26

Post by lovemenot »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #9
onion2k wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers want iteration, evolution, and low-risk change. If every new product was a wholesale paradigm shift very few people would ever change what they spend their money on.

Nah. Customers want low friction and solutions. Fact: NO ONE wakes up and thinks "I gotta buy me some iteration today." Iteration, evolution and low-risk change are means. They are not ends.

This reads like so much marketing blurb. Opinion dressed as fact.

I would argue, but would not presume to state as fact, that the large majority of Japanese actually prefer iteration over radical innovation, almost all of the time.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#27

Post by bitL »

hau wrote: post #17
bitL wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that creates companies like Behringer; they are right now in the process of cloning every single famous synthesizer that has expired IP, selling it for 5-10x less than the original manufacturers. This would obviously lead to market full of cheap clones (of course welcome by customers), but the original designers would end up on the streets or are forced to change their mindsets to cloners, likely in 20 years comp…

Sitting on an idea indefinitely is not a good prospect either. Original developers knew that IP would expire and still produced original design. There're always risks, originality has some protection but so is availability and freedom of innovating at manufacturing, freedom to compete at costs. Original things can't be plenty if you can't base your work on something that someone made before. These synthesisers are ba…

Look at what is happening with Gibson (sellers of CakeWalk, Oberheim etc.), how many bankruptcies/forced mergers happened in that space recently; now imagine getting a perfect clone maker to the mix, selling "legends" for cheap that might be good enough for 90% of users; the original idea people won't have any funding coming from their older works, some of them might risk it for some new idea that if not received well bankrupts them personally and they indeed end up on the street. It's happening all the time, we just don't like to hear about it.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#28

Post by izacus »

shubhamjain wrote: post #18

There are probably very few original ideas anyway. Google wasn't new, search engines already existed. Yahoo! wasn't new, web directories already existed. If you trace it hard enough, you could get to filling cabinets and folders. Over the years, I have realized that the idea of 'idea' is itself problematic. It implies that you can describe something very complex with a simple phrase (in hindsight, of course). What wa…

This whole concept of idea ownership is pretty damaging to progress - most progress in 20th century was seeing several companies compete in same space and take ideas from competitors, iterating on them and integrating them in new, improved products.

Imagine if one car company could "own" the idea of blind spot monitoring. Or navigation. Or rear view camera.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#29

Post by onion2k »

bitL wrote: post #10
onion2k wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers want iteration, evolution, and low-risk change. If every new product was a wholesale paradigm shift very few people would ever change what they spend their money on.

But that creates companies like Behringer; they are right now in the process of cloning every single famous synthesizer that has expired IP, selling it for 5-10x less than the original manufacturers. This would obviously lead to market full of cheap clones (of course welcome by customers), but the original designers would end up on the streets or are forced to change their mindsets to cloners, likely in 20 years comp…

the original designers would end up on the streets

They've already made their money during the time they had the patent, so I imagine they'll not be on the streets in any literal sense. Also they have much more experience of successfully selling their product, so they could iterate to a new, better version.

Re: The case for copying business ideas

#30

Post by oftenwrong »

0898 wrote: post #13

Smart people have always stolen ideas from completely unrelated industries. I mean, Gutenberg invented the printing press after seeing a wine press crush grapes. Velcro was invented when some guy found burrs stuck to his trousers. Genius isn’t conceiving some magic new technology. It's taking a mature technology and transplanting it elsewhere. For Christmas, I bought myself a pass to Masterclass.com. They have classe…

>For example, Deadmau5 has a folder of unfinished loops and melodies. He calls it his "Mr Potatohead" bin. He spends his time building little components – and then once in a while experiments with different ways of putting them together to make a track.

KRS-One reportedly did something similar:

> ‘Go to the car, and get me the black, blue, and green bags. And bring those here.’ They bring them in. ‘Great.’ He unzips these duffle bags full of stacks and stacks of rhyme notebooks. Rhymes he wrote in the ‘70s and ‘80s. He’ll go, ‘Umm, let’s see here, and that, and here, give me that yellow one, okay, and give me that brown one. Okay, let’s go lay the song.’ And he uses like three different rhymes, but they all sound relevant. And they sound like something he just wrote. He just skims through it, and murmurs then goes, ‘Okay, I got it.’ These are rhymes he been had, and they sound like today. That’s amazing.

from https://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/dj-premier-tells-all-s...

I'm pretty sure he was referencing this practice in 1, 2 Pass it:

>I'm the difference between indo and oregano. Imagine how fresh I am now; I made these lyrics up a year ago.

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