WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#21

Post by devit » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:26 AM UTC

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me.

The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want.

Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#22

Post by antpls » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:37 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #14

antpls wrote: post #13

At first, I thought WhatApps wanted to slow down automation and bots because they just don't want people to be helped in their communications (which would be weird, given their mission is to help people to communicate). However, after the recent news about spreading misinformation in India which did lead to injustices, I can see how bots may harm uninformed users more than it would help them. Shame on WhatApps for no…

I don't see what any of these apps being targeted have to do with bots.

Ultimately, "Android" is about automation and integration (hence the name), and WhatsApp is fighting the spirit of the Android API.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#23

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

It sucks. Here in the Netherlands, WhatsApp is used by the vast majority of people. The holdouts (like me) consist of people who don't want to deal with smartphones (some elderly, some who deliberately avoid them because of addictive behaviour), or who own a smartphone, but don't agree with WhatsApp's terms of use (essentially paying for access with your data).

Not using WhatsApp has consequences. We sometimes miss out on family events when people forget that we don't use WhatsApp. Anyone with children is basically required to use WhatsApp for communication with other parents, organising school and social events, and what have you. Refusal to do so means you ostracise your kids.

So yeah, great. To participate in some parts of society WhatsApp is now a de facto requirement. A whole nation blindly agrees to whatever terms of use Facebook drafts. And when you do accept those terms, you are forced to use their client software on one of their approved operating systems. Owning a (Android or Iphone) smartphone is a hard requirement.

The network effect means that alternatives never gain any traction, and the price of WhatsApp ('free') is hard to beat.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#24

Post by qeternity » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

> Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one.

This is not a monopoly, and monopolies themselves are not illegal. You mention antitrust laws but I am not sure what anticompetitive behavior is taking place here? The C&D itself is quite laughable, but speaking more generally, why should the network effect be regulated? Plenty of other communications networks are open, so any network effect of "walled gardens" ought to be attributed to the superiority of the product.

There are so many methods of communication available today, calling any one of them a monopoly is a bit absurd. You may not like what WhatsApp are doing, but that's not reason for more regulation...that's reason to switch products. But just because you don't like the alternatives isn't a valid argument for increased regulation.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#25

Post by Freak_NL » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:53 AM UTC

r_c_a_d wrote: post #20

kartan wrote: post #15

TLDR: Two apps are integrated with Android. WhatsApp is integrated with Android. Facebook wants the integration to stop, so they sue this other apps integrated with Android. The solution is easy. Facebook should remove the integration from WhatsApp. Problem solved. If you don't want other apps to extend your functionality, you should not integrate with other systems. The reality is that when a behemoth like Facebook…

But we can stop using their services.

You and I can (and probably do), but the carrot it too sweet for the majority of users.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#26

Post by fauigerzigerk » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 9:55 AM UTC

If I understand this correctly then I think Google needs to step in here and defend users of the Android APIs. It can't be that developers are getting sued for nothing more than using these APIs as intended.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#27

Post by iMerNibor » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 10:08 AM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #24

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

> Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one. This is not a monopoly, and monopolies themselves are not illegal. You mention antitrust laws but I am not sure what anticompetitive behavior is taking place here? The C&D itself is quite laughable, but spea…

> superiority of the product

It's not though. Once you become big and have reached critical mass you can pull off quite a lot of mediocre/bad stuff. Fact is the majority of people simply do not care as long as the product still works (they might not even be aware there's bad stuff going on behind the scenes) - too much effort to find a suitable alternative, convince everyone else to go to the same platform and so on

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#28

Post by mdpopescu » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 10:12 AM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #25

r_c_a_d wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we can stop using their services.

You and I can (and probably do), but the carrot it too sweet for the majority of users.

Now do that with the government.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#29

Post by anodari » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 10:23 AM UTC

In Brazil, everyone uses Whatsapp and companies have been pressured by consumers to offer customer service through this channel. I researched and saw that there are integrated apps, but I do not know what form they are using since for all I know, the API has not yet been made available to everyone.

Re: WhatsApp sends Cease and Desists for apps that use native Android APIs

#30

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Thu, Jul 05, 2018, 10:24 AM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #24

devit wrote: post #21

The real problem here is that after this stunt I'd like to completely stop using Whatsapp and switch to something else instead, but I can't because other people use Whatsapp and communicating with other people is essential to me. The problem is there no laws to stop whoever becomes the lucky recipient of such a network effect from doing whatever they want. Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider networ…

> Instead antitrust law needs to be expanded to consider network effect platforms like social network as monopolies on ways of interacting with their users, and restrict them from several behaviors like this one. This is not a monopoly, and monopolies themselves are not illegal. You mention antitrust laws but I am not sure what anticompetitive behavior is taking place here? The C&D itself is quite laughable, but spea…

> Plenty of other communications networks are open, so any network effect of "walled gardens" ought to be attributed to the superiority of the product.

So, when people evidently complain that they feel the social pressure to use the walled garden even though they rather wouldn't ... then that ought to be attributed to the superiority of the product?

Could you explain your reasoning behind that?