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Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

newyorker.com

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Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#21

Post by mrchicity »

mabbo wrote: post #8

Call me crazy, but what if you just funded all public schools sufficiently that the advantage of going to the "good" school was lessened? Is that too socialist?

Good schools are mostly good because of their student bodies.

At a basic level you need teachers who care, books and decent accommodations. If those basics aren't being met, then spending will help. And if those needs are met, it certainly helps to have really great, special teachers who push students a little further.

But I believe if you took the kids from a selective school and swapped them with kids from a school with frequent violence and truancy, the kids from the selective school would still have far better life outcomes, and find ways to succeed despite run down classrooms, less inspiring teachers, and dated books. They would succeed if you put them in an 1800s one-room schoolhouse, or didn't even send them to school at all. They had to pass a high bar for intellectual ability and their parents care about education.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#22

Post by justinpombrio »

zeth___ wrote: post #5

This is an very good example of why 'people of color' is red herring no one believes. Asians, both yellow and brown, are out performing whites. Blacks are under performing everyone and 'latinos' are doing either ok or pretty badly, depending on if you split them according to skin color. The issue in America has been and still is why are blacks doing so poorly? Dressing it up as anything else does no one any favors.

> The issue in America has been and still is why are blacks doing so poorly?

If nothing else, enormous income differences? See the top graph here:

https://www.financialsamurai.com/income-by-race-why-is-asian...

It's hard to educate yourself well if your family is poor, I hear.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#23

Post by [deleted] »

wb36 wrote: post #10

Instead of debating the criteria for entrance into these elite schools, why not look at what makes them such great schools and replicate that elsewhere? Sure, in so far as being surrounded by top students who study all the time improves the environment, the current elite is likely to remain the elite and the admissions criteria should still be discussed. But if the gap between the quality of those schools and the oth…

[deleted]

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#24

Post by confiscate »

Test scores are race-blind and fair. Test instructors do not give more scores to a test because they see it was completed by an Asian test-taker.

It's great that schools are looking for a better "mix" of ethnicities in the incoming class, but they should encourage the underrepresented ethnicities to do better, in tests or other race-blind admission standards.

They should not put an admission "cap" based on the color of your skin

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#25

Post by Fomite »

camdenlock wrote: post #4

This is some bullshit. Trying to exert such rigid control over educational outcomes by favoring people based on their race? Talk about unfair discrimination. It’s 2018 (aka $CURRENT_YEAR), haven’t we grown beyond this fruitless social engineering wheel-spinning? In a sane world, this kind of legislation would be shot down with cogent arguments from smart and knowledgeable lawmakers. The only reason such ill-conceived…

The suggestion is that educational outcomes are already favoring people by race, just with a veneer laid over it, and we're revisiting the question as to whether or not that's working.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#26

Post by Reactionary_ »

1. I believe black and hispanic students could do just as well as asian students if their cultures were similar to that of the asian students.

Let's not kid ourselves. The asian students doing well on these tests are born into cultures that value academic achievement more than the average black or hispanic family. There's nothing inherently different about the different groups aside from their cultures.

Keep the tests, and encourage a culture of academic excellent to take root in different communities where it may not currently exist.

2. Let's stop being so obsessed with race. Racial quotas make people think more about race when our goal should be to make people think less about race and more about individuals apart from the color of their skin.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#27

Post by Fomite »

commandlinefan wrote: post #18
ouid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're not normalizing for enough, and you know it.

Maybe he does, but I don’t... what do you mean, “normalizing for enough?”

"Brown" is not the only variable that might have influenced on success. "Asian" or "Hispanic" or "Black" are actually a basket of variables that exist at different levels that influence everything from health to educational attainment.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#28

Post by zeth___ »

commandlinefan wrote: post #18
ouid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're not normalizing for enough, and you know it.

Maybe he does, but I don’t... what do you mean, “normalizing for enough?”

That's dogwhistle for 'you're racist'.

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#29

Post by [deleted] »

ericdykstra wrote: post #20

The entire doctrine of Disparate Impact, and Affirmative Action which is borne from it, is one of the most illiberal policies in America. I really hope a constitutionalist Supreme Court can reverse this madness. On Affirmative Action in specific, here's a great interview from Sowell about the unintended consequences that arise from the awful policy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVvnTByzTmA

[deleted]

Re: Why Asian-Americans feel powerless in New York’s elite high schools

#30

Post by tdb7893 »

mabbo wrote: post #8

Call me crazy, but what if you just funded all public schools sufficiently that the advantage of going to the "good" school was lessened? Is that too socialist?

I went to a private school that had less funding than the local public school but the students were more motivated so my school performed better. Funding helps but having a school with motivated students will always create a significant gap regardless of funding levels
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