21–30 of 31 posts
Are you allowed to take a leave of absence, without any penalty?
I find it hard to believe you haven't learned anything in two years. Unless you're a genius, you're probably not approaching it the right way. As for student loans, I had a 16 month internship between 3rd and 4th years of university that paid well, so that allowed me to cover my loans from the first three years, get a ton of experience and save up for 4th year. I graduated without debt and some money in the bank, but…
Also, bitching about general ed requirements is also a copout. You usually don't have to take psych 101 to fulfill requirements. Any 200+ level class will be much more challenging and interesting. You just have to have the balls to take higher level coursework.
Perhaps this list of billionaire dropouts may have some relevance to the topic at hand: http://www.pennylicious.com/2006/10/09/billionaire-dropouts/ Also listen to Steve Jobs talk about dropping out in his commencement speech: http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+commencement Dropping out is one of the worst things you can do if you want a job , and one of the best things you can do if you want to make sure you…
I'm really skeptical that there's a causal relationship between dropping out and subsequently becoming a billionaire, or otherwise very wealthy. There may be a correlation (both require independent thinking, etc.), but I think most of those billionaires would have been as successful or even more so if they'd have spent the time to finish school. And looking at a handful of examples of billionaire dropouts and then ge…
> but I think most of those billionaires would have been as successful or even more so if they'd have spent the time to finish school.
Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone. Gates dropped out of Harvard because he was worried about missing his chance to make it big in the computer industry. There's also the non-trivial issue of losing your most energetic years as a young adult (18-22) by spending them on something other than your life ambition. Not to mention, if you aren't interested in college and force yourself to do it, that may well have such a spirit-crushing/soul-numbing effect that you kill off your own motivation to the point where you lose your drive to DO your own company. It depends on your personality.
I think for the most part, ambition to take over the world as an entrepreneur is incompatible with jumping through anyone else's hoops, including sitting in class and doing what someone else tells you.
So it's not that dropping out makes you a world-changer, but staying in is frustrating to the ambitions of world-changers.
If you look at the Forbes 2007 list of richest Americans who didn't inherit their wealth, you get 1. Gates (college dropout), 3. Adelson (college dropout), 4. Ellison (college dropout), 5 and 6. Brin and Page (grad school dropouts), 7. Kerkorian (8th grade dropout!), 8. Dell (college dropout), 9. Allen (college dropout). Only Warren Buffet at #2 didn't drop out of school at some level, but he was already established in business before he went to college, and only went because his father pressured him into it. He hated it. (I left out the Koches because they inherited Koch Industries.)
The causal effect is that the same thing that drives them to be successful also drove them to drop out.
Perhaps this list of billionaire dropouts may have some relevance to the topic at hand: http://www.pennylicious.com/2006/10/09/billionaire-dropouts/ Also listen to Steve Jobs talk about dropping out in his commencement speech: http://www.google.com/search?q=steve+jobs+commencement Dropping out is one of the worst things you can do if you want a job , and one of the best things you can do if you want to make sure you…
Perhaps- I dropped out of college to start my first venture. It folded unexpectedly early, and afterwards I found myself without another idea I found compelling enough to put 100% into. Rather than going back to school I decided to try my luck at seeing if I could get a day job, and while my lack of a degree definitely closed a couple doors, the failed startup experience was enough to get a few offers and a job at on…
Ironically, without a diploma, your best options for getting a job at someone else's company happen to be in the same locations that are best for starting your own company regardless of diploma. Google probably won't hire you but another startup will, because they don't have diplomas, either! They just care if you are smart, and get things done.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm really skeptical that there's a causal relationship between dropping out and subsequently becoming a billionaire, or otherwise very wealthy. There may be a correlation (both require independent thinking, etc.), but I think most of those billionaires would have been as successful or even more so if they'd have spent the time to finish school. And looking at a handful of examples of billionaire dropouts and then ge…
Sure, if you throw yourself in the deep end, you may sink to the bottom. However, those who make it out will be better swimmers than those who stay in the kiddie pool, that's all. > but I think most of those billionaires would have been as successful or even more so if they'd have spent the time to finish school. Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone. Gates dropped out of Harvard becau…
Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone.
There's also the non-trivial issue of losing your most
energetic years as a young adult (18-22) by spending them
on something other than your life ambition.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, if you throw yourself in the deep end, you may sink to the bottom. However, those who make it out will be better swimmers than those who stay in the kiddie pool, that's all. > but I think most of those billionaires would have been as successful or even more so if they'd have spent the time to finish school. Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone. Gates dropped out of Harvard becau…
I think you can easily get into trouble by looking at only the very richest people: by definition, they are the 1-in-a-million who took the right risks, and got fantastically lucky. Dropping out could very well be high risk, high reward -- but that doesn't mean the overall expected value is particularly high. Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone. Sure, if you're sitting on an opportun…
Sure, but not all opportunities are created equal. Think how different things would be if Gates waited a couple years, or Woz and Jobs, or even the Google guys. Google would have incorporated right around the dot-bust and likely would've tanked because it wouldn't have had those couple years to become established first. If ViaWeb had waited a couple years then instead of selling to Yahoo in 1998 they would have run into the bust as well, making it that much harder to get bought. WebTV would've missed out on two years' worth of being viable back when websites were designed for 640x480. Microsoft would have been a couple years behind and would've missed the IBM deal.
In this industry, a couple of years is a long time and things are constantly moving, so there's always an incredible opportunity cost for waiting.
On the flip side, college will always be there. Woz went back and got his degree after Apple went public.
> I think more people should view entrepreneurship as a career, not as something you do for a few years in your early 20s to make a few quick bucks.
You can do it as long as you want. However, as an oldie, I can tell you that my productivity level was MUCH higher when I was younger. In the 18-22 range, this stuff is EXCITING. You've never DONE it before. Everything motivates you!
I don't think it's an accident Reddit was done by guys that age. It's such a simple site with a boring design that people with massively more experience wouldn't even bother to do something like it. But they started out in Lisp, so it was an adventure! Then they learned Python and rewrote it. New and interesting!
Nothing substitutes for enthusiasm because enthusiasm leads to getting things done. New things are exciting. Youth = inexperience = more things are new and therefore exciting and so you have more enthusiasm. Youth also means higher hormone levels, which means more energy and caring about things more and being irrational by expending irrational amounts of energy on projects that interest you. Lower hormone levels mean indifference or just talking about something but not having the excitement level needed to break your energy-conservation threshold and DO it.
Don't drop out though. I got pressured by a company to drop out and go work for them; I didn't do it and it turned out they went out of business anyway. Moreover, they knew they were headed to going out of business, but they still tried to convince me dropping out to work for them was a good idea. It's not.
Are you allowed to take a leave of absence, without any penalty?
Depends on what kind of penalty you mean. I know at my university you can take a leave of absence for a semester with no academic penalty, but most people wouldn't do it because they're afraid of how it would look on a transcript/resume.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you can easily get into trouble by looking at only the very richest people: by definition, they are the 1-in-a-million who took the right risks, and got fantastically lucky. Dropping out could very well be high risk, high reward -- but that doesn't mean the overall expected value is particularly high. Dropping out can be a necessary condition due to timing reasons alone. Sure, if you're sitting on an opportun…
> if you have opportunities now, you'll have opportunities in a few years once you graduate. Sure, but not all opportunities are created equal. Think how different things would be if Gates waited a couple years, or Woz and Jobs, or even the Google guys. Google would have incorporated right around the dot-bust and likely would've tanked because it wouldn't have had those couple years to become established first. If Vi…
In my opinion, you are just making excuses for why you are less productive than you should be; it's called rationalization. ;-)
My advice is to dive in to some area of s/w (or whatever) that you don't know at all (i.e. become a beginner) and see if that doesn't spark your excitement again. It does for me, over and over again!
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if you have opportunities now, you'll have opportunities in a few years once you graduate. Sure, but not all opportunities are created equal. Think how different things would be if Gates waited a couple years, or Woz and Jobs, or even the Google guys. Google would have incorporated right around the dot-bust and likely would've tanked because it wouldn't have had those couple years to become established first. If Vi…
Also as an oldie, I'd say my productivity today is the highest it has ever been. How do I keep myself motivated? By constantly being a beginner. I do web programming, GUI programming, embedded systems, drivers, unix, mac, PC, bare metal, lisp, python, C, dozens of assembly languages, Verilog, hardware, analog, RF, antennas, etc. In my opinion, you are just making excuses for why you are less productive than you shoul…
I'm not sure why you thought I'd need your psychoanalysis or advice :) We have different neurobiology.
I've dived into new things many times. It's just not exciting to me the way it was when I was younger.