Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries? • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#21

Post by grecy » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:02 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #17

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

If you ask a lay person from any human culture how do you know when a person is dead I think you would get similar answers along the lines of: - no heartbeat - no breath - their body temperature falls to ambient temperature - blood pools on lower half of body - onset of decomposition - etc When organs are removed from a person for donation, none of those conditions apply. In order to accommodate this fact the concept…

A friend from University has spent the last ~15 years working in the organ donation site of ER medicine.

They actually spend more time trying to revive a donor and doing everything they possibly can because of misconceptions like what you said above. She is quite certain that if anything, being a donor actually increases the likelihood of you being revived by medical staff, who would much rather revive you than have to deal with people telling them they didn't try hard enough.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#22

Post by mediascreen » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:02 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

Sweden has an opt out system, but still has very low participation: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-41199918

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#23

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

singularity2001 wrote: post #15

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

Yes make it opt-out by law, with central database and (formless) opt-out pass, which people can carry around. If neither is found relatives need to be contacted.

[deleted]

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#24

Post by flother » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

Iceland passed an opt-out organ donation law recently. It comes into force from 1 January 2019.

http://icelandreview.com/news/2018/06/07/all-icelanders-are-...

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#25

Post by robrenaud » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

What is the bottleneck to organ donation? 46 out of 1 million seems atrocious, not laudable. How many people are willing to donate but medically unable?

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#26

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #20

croon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is persuasive, but can also buy coercive. If there are no boundaries or rule structures, then the incentives often (always?) bleed into some involved party not having a choice, or a Hobson's choice.

Is having an Hobson's choice worse than having no choice at all? Someone having to choose between selling a kidney or starving is terrible. But the solution shouldn't be to deny the first option - that just leaves starving. It should be to give them a third option. That said, obviously "no rules" would still be dangerous, but no legal sale is done without any rules.

The false triectomy?

There's little reason for anyone to submit to organ harvesting to eat. The idea that our society is just enough for individuals to face that choice is kind of laughable.

Of course the best thing is to make artificial organs work, but that's not something most potential organ donors have much influence over.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#27

Post by hycaria » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

Am I the only one not so very enthuastic about organ donation ? Except for cornea, it means a life long of heavy immunosuppressive treatments (which are not free afaik), leading to higher cancer rates and many other side effects. Things are rarely a pure win, there are downsides (even though they are suspiciously rarely mentioned). I don't think we have such a shortage of people that we have to save every and each one no matter the cost.

So yes, I for one am not interested at all by donating my organs (here it is an opt out). I'd rather be dissected, as I learned a lot on (in my case animal) cadavers.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#28

Post by Kurtz79 » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

mediascreen wrote: post #22

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

Sweden has an opt out system, but still has very low participation: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-41199918

For "low participation", do you mean that the majoritiy of population actively opted out?

How is the decision to opt out made?

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#29

Post by RobertoG » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #20

croon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is persuasive, but can also buy coercive. If there are no boundaries or rule structures, then the incentives often (always?) bleed into some involved party not having a choice, or a Hobson's choice.

Is having an Hobson's choice worse than having no choice at all? Someone having to choose between selling a kidney or starving is terrible. But the solution shouldn't be to deny the first option - that just leaves starving. It should be to give them a third option. That said, obviously "no rules" would still be dangerous, but no legal sale is done without any rules.

>>"Someone having to choose between selling a kidney or starving is terrible. But the solution shouldn't be to deny the first option"

If in the XXI century we have not eliminated those dilemmas is that we are doing something wrong.

Also, it seems that you would be creating an incentive to make people hungry.

Re: Spain leads the world in organ donation. What’s stopping other countries?

#30

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 28, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #10

My first thought has always been to just make it mandatory, or at the very least opt-out instead of opt-in. I realize those are both very controversial, so I wonder why we don't have a monetary incentive. i.e. We will pay $1000 for every organ of yours we take to a person you nominate.

[deleted]