Live data from Hacker News

New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

bunniestudios.com

21–30 of 357 posts

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#21

These new tariffs are posturing. Trump seems to understand how to negotiate and is willing to take short term hardship for long term gain. We need to have balanced trade agreements. Not balanced in the sense of trade amount, but balanced in the sense of tariffs and subsidies. Access to US consumers is a big bargaining chip. If China won’t deal, there are other countries that will. I think we all understood we had an…

> Access to US consumers is a big bargaining chip

Which is why finished consumer products are not part of the new tariffs, so companies that make stuff in China and ship it to the US are better off than companies buying parts in China and assembling in the US? Or was there a big push of end-product tariffs before that didn't make headlines?

In most cases, buying all your parts locally is fairly impractical. (The documentation of various "fair trade" electronics projects is often interesting in that regard, since they often are willing to accept higher prices from trustworthy local sources, and often find that only a few things can be gotten locally at all, and often only in specialist variants, e.g. high-precision parts, with matching prices). Maybe it'll be enough push to restart some component industries, but I'm skeptical.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#22

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

I disagree.

Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam.

So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration gave that to them. The result is Samsung and other moved to America for manufacturing. But these companies got HUGE tax breaks incentive to move their company to their states while the American companies aren't getting anything.

This is on top of the prices of metal going up. There is a $100 extra on top of washing/drying machines now.

I'm not a libertarian but The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith states that all country will have certain expertise they are just good at. Wether it is because the geography that enable them to be better than other or other things, because they're good at certain thing, countries should play to their strength and trade for what they need.

Samsung and other non USA companies are just better than US manufacturer in building washing/drying machine. That's just a fact and this tariff thing is only costing the consumer. The consumers are the losers.

These are the sources before the effect of the tariffs:

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/94166-washing-machine-t...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/business/trump-tariffs-wa...

I don't recall where I got the sources of LG and Samsung moving to USA but it could be PBSnews.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the rest of the world? Some how the US is the most powerful economy in the world, it’s corporations the richest but the US is being ripped off?

I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs have stagnated since we’ve been off-shoring manufacturing to China. The poor in the US were getting poorer. Not everyone has the ability to transition into a thinking job and we need a balanced economy for these people.

Then tax the rich and feed the poor. Don’t erode the competitive advantage of America. The solution is pretty simple. People are looking east instead of west for everything.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the rest of the world? Some how the US is the most powerful economy in the world, it’s corporations the richest but the US is being ripped off?

I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs have stagnated since we’ve been off-shoring manufacturing to China. The poor in the US were getting poorer. Not everyone has the ability to transition into a thinking job and we need a balanced economy for these people.

Not to disagree (or agree), but it seems to me most USians were quite happy to buy cheap Chinese crap at Walmart & Amazon in the last decades, thus off-shoring their own jobs. The chickens are home to roost.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#25
I really hate the new tariff.

There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too.

The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession.

Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/...

So the question is why do we need this tradewar? It only introduce instability and fear in our market and we have never really recover from 2008 recession yet. The quality of job suck by the way.

It's protectionism and it does not make our country competitive at all.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will be as affected as any other importer I would imagine, but they might try to get away with letting they buyer discover the import costs as their packages get stuck in customs.

Most cheapo small ebay things are sent as 'fat letters'(up to a point) but be warned if the thing is an actual box, you'll enjoy both import fees AND additional random importation tax handling fees.

AFAIK most sellers under-declare the value and mark as gift on their manifest, so the packages don't get taxed.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the rest of the world? Some how the US is the most powerful economy in the world, it’s corporations the richest but the US is being ripped off?

I’m not sure you understand how nations work. We elect people to work in our best interests. We are in competition with other countries. Our blue collar jobs have stagnated since we’ve been off-shoring manufacturing to China. The poor in the US were getting poorer. Not everyone has the ability to transition into a thinking job and we need a balanced economy for these people.

It's the whole competition mentality. If anything the US is in a competition against themselves. Everything seems to fight against helping your fellow man and all about gettings yours before anyone get's theirs.

Healthcare for you fellow citizens? So controversial. Billions of dollars for war and killing others? Well that's ok then, let's spend that money no questions asked.

You guys are at competition so much with each other that you create scary fake bogeymen (like the chinese) to distract that you're really fighting yourselves.

The whole world isn't always a competition to win. I'd rather cooperate and we can all have a win/win instead of a win/lose.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#28

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

I disagree. Wavepool, Maytag, etc.. Americans washer and dryer cloth machines pushed for Tariff from the Obama administration to fight against Samsung and other. The tariff target machine coming out from specific countries so Samsung and other moved to other South Eastern companies such as Vietnam. So the American companies pushed for tariff for all incoming washing machine that aren't American. Trump administration…

"I disagree."

In other words you think that subsidies and senseless bureaucratic obstacles are better than tariffs?

The OP is not saying that tariffs are a good thing, he's saying that tariffs are so obviously bad & stupid that they're easier to get rid of and negotiate away. Subsidies and senseless bureaucratic obstacles are just as damaging as tariffs but they are harder to get rid of.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#29

I'm neutral on the tariffs, I am(or was) actually excited about China getting into the memory market to help keep the other memory makers honest... but it's important to have an alternative source of those components in case there would be trouble between the US and China. There needs to be a way to nudge businesses to have a source of components out of China.

> it's important to have an alternative source of those components in case there would be trouble between the US and China.

Except there is none...

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#30

Out of all possible trade barriers, I think tariffs are generally the better option. The alternative is subsidies, quotas or "unofficial" barriers like product safety rules or other burry-you-in-bureaucracy setups. Tariffs bring in taxes (as opposed to costing the public) They're easier to understand. This one makes Chinese microwaves x% more expensive. It's clearer who is paying for it (consumers) and who benefits,…

People buying products subject to tariffs (or products made with materials subject to tariffs) pay the majority of the tariff.

So they do cost the public.

In a functioning market, local suppliers are likely to raise prices in response to the tariffs, as they face less competition.

Post reply on HN