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Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

nature.com

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Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#21

Post by larkeith »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #18
credit_guy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the Kilopower reactor [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilopower

Summary of the linked Wikipedia entry: a nuclear heat source driving a Stirling Engine connected to a regular electric generator. A test reactor has been constructed, called KRUSTY or Kilopower Reactor Using Stirling Technology. It is designed to produce up to 1 kilowatt of electric power and is about 6.5 feet tall (1.9 meters).[12] The goal of the KRUSTY experiment is to closely match the operational parameters that…

Also cool: uses passive heat pipes rather than coolant, further reducing the number of moving parts (making it that much more reliable).

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#22

Post by thomasfortes »

seccess wrote: post #3

Do dust storms only occur on planets with an atmosphere? And does their severity depend on how dense the atmosphere is?

From https://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/1206/kicking-up-dust-saturn...:

"The planetary magnetosphere comes into play with the charged dust particles. The rotation of Saturn’s magnetic field generates an electric field directed radially outward from the planet. This field will eject small, electrically charged particles, into interplanetary space. Once that happens, the interplanetary magnetic field “frozen” into the solar wind can accelerate the dust particles to high speeds, creating the bursts of particles recorded by cosmic dust detectors. Evidence for this interpretation came from the changes in direction of the stream particles when the interplanetary magnetic field changed direction, in close timing with the Sun’s rotation."

So my guess is that a planet with no atmosphere and a magnetosphere weak enough to accelerate the charged dust just only enough to keep it moving without being ejected of the planet could have something happening, I'm not a planetary scientist and I don't know if a storm would be plausible so take it with a grain of salt and hope for someone else to jump on the question.

But if we're talking about "common" dust storms, without an atmosphere there would be no winds, so no common storms, and since air density in Mars is much lower than Earth (around 1% of ours), high speed storms in Mars would not be as severe as in Earth, wind speeds that would turn a car or rip trees on Earth wouldn't even push a human out of his place in Mars.

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#24

Post by FranOntanaya »

seccess wrote: post #3

Do dust storms only occur on planets with an atmosphere? And does their severity depend on how dense the atmosphere is?

Our Moon has "sort of" dust storms of ionized dust. They are driven by electric charge from ionizing solar wind rather than an actual atmosphere.

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#25

Post by [deleted] »

elihu wrote: post #15
mabbo wrote: post #8

I'm intrigued by what research and plans have been made for how Martian colonists will deal with this sort of problem. I'm guessing solar won't be enough to keep a colony going. Wind power, even in a dust storm, wouldn't be possible because the air is so thin. Nuclear of some kind seems the only other option.

The article doesn't say what the exact power drop is, but it appears to have been at least 75%: > Within days, Opportunity saw sunlight dimming as atmospheric opacity — a measure of how much dust is in the air — soared. The rover’s energy production dropped by half over the course of 2 days, and then half again in a single day, Callas said during a media briefing on 13 June. Aside from nuclear, some reasonable mitiga…

[deleted]

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#26

Post by interfixus »

manicdee wrote: post #6
ibdf wrote: post #4

“It’s like you have a loved one in a coma in the hospital, and you have the doctors telling you you just have to give it time and she’ll wake up,” says Callas. “But if it’s your 97-year-old grandmother, you’re going to be very concerned, and we are. By no means are we out of the woods.” This is just a sad analogy. Yes, let's compare the life of a robot to the one of a human being.

The life of a human being can be evaluated in terms of how many people they've interacted with, the influence they've had on those peoples' lives, and the lasting memories that people carry with them once that human has gone. It is quite possible to apply the same metrics to "a robot" (which is actually an entire science program at JPL), and see that this program has affected the lives of many more people than most h…

Not to mention the rest of us. The razor sharp images from the twin rovers have been a constant source of awe and wonder for the last fifteen years. For me, these almost snapshots really helped establish Mars as a place, as somehwere, just like anywhere else. Thank you, America. One of your nicer cultural exports.

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#27

Post by citrablue »

elihu wrote: post #17
starik36 wrote: post #11

I am a bit confused by the "Massive" statement. I understand that Mars has barely any atmospheric pressure, therefore, any "Massive" storm would be a gentle wind. If fact, Andy Weir, the author of the "Martian", called the beginning of the book where the hero gets stabbed by a metal rod during the massive storm a complete fabrication for the purposes of the story and impossible in real life.

As you say, direct damage from wind isn't a major risk on Mars, contrary to the book. However, dust storms do happen, and according to the article they can affect huge areas and block out most of the sunlight.

Is the idea that this one lasts long enough that it deposits sand on my friend's panels, and they doesn't have enough backup juice by then to move/clean it off?

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#28

Post by duxup »

starik36 wrote: post #11

I am a bit confused by the "Massive" statement. I understand that Mars has barely any atmospheric pressure, therefore, any "Massive" storm would be a gentle wind. If fact, Andy Weir, the author of the "Martian", called the beginning of the book where the hero gets stabbed by a metal rod during the massive storm a complete fabrication for the purposes of the story and impossible in real life.

The amount of light being blocked is supposed to be unusually high.

Re: Massive Martian dust storm endangers NASA rover

#29

Post by SECProto »

elihu wrote: post #15
mabbo wrote: post #8

I'm intrigued by what research and plans have been made for how Martian colonists will deal with this sort of problem. I'm guessing solar won't be enough to keep a colony going. Wind power, even in a dust storm, wouldn't be possible because the air is so thin. Nuclear of some kind seems the only other option.

The article doesn't say what the exact power drop is, but it appears to have been at least 75%: > Within days, Opportunity saw sunlight dimming as atmospheric opacity — a measure of how much dust is in the air — soared. The rover’s energy production dropped by half over the course of 2 days, and then half again in a single day, Callas said during a media briefing on 13 June. Aside from nuclear, some reasonable mitiga…

Exactly this - giant solar farm for rocket fuel production, turn it off at night, turn it down or off during dust storms. Rocket fuel could be used during these lulls (nights/storms) to provide power, maybe recapturing the exhaust gases as pure feedstock.

edit - batteries might be the better option for overnight, but would have serious mass penalty to use for long term backup power. Using fuel as storage is simple solution.

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