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If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

nytimes.com

21–30 of 92 posts

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#21

I've heard universal basic income may be a viable approach, but I think it's unclear how it scales up as of yet. Regardless, I haven't seen better suggestions yet.

Governments can either print money or steal money from those who are making them.

Anytime I see on HN suggestions that government is the solution my pessimist for the future gets some boost.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#22
post #9
post #2

The government should do precisely NOTHING. The jobs don't belong to workers, so the premise is entirely wrong to begin with.

This is correct. It's not the government's job to provide you a job, it's a personal responsibility to find one, if you want one. If you seek one, the government might provide some minor worker abuse and discrimination protections, but this in no way implies you have entitlement to a job or even income.

We're talking about a world where automation has consumed say 20%+ of jobs. You presumably don't want to let these newly unemployed people starve, so what's to be done? It's naive to think that continued rising mass unemployment while a small amount of robot owners get richer and richer is a stable model of society. The automated economy would end up in public hands soon enough, one way or another.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#23
The article features three views. 1. A paper from the Roosevelt Institute [1] 2. the McKinsey Global Institute and 3. Michael Strain, a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

Summarized ideas introduced in the article:

    * Allowing for inflation to tackle unemployment (from 1.)
    * Less monopole granting intellectual property laws (from 1.)
    * Work-sharing programs (from 1.)
    * Publicly funded higher education and training (from 1.)
    * Subsidized education and training (from 2.)
    * Making job benefits like health insurance and retirement funds more “portable,” (from 2.)
    * Expanding the earned-income tax credit (from 3.)
Interesting pre-assumption from [1] that might be dominant in economics but maybe not on the internet:

> This set of proposals is based on the idea that the emerging wave of digital disruption won’t result in a permanent loss of demand for workers, but rather shifts in what types of work the economy needs.

[1] http://rooseveltinstitute.org/dont-fear-robots/

[2] https://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/overview/2017-in-review/automat...

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#24

The government’s job should be to keep an eye that gains are shared broadly enough, and ensure increased productivity doesn’t cause excess environmental harm. (If the government funds Robotics research, all citizens should share in the windfall)

"all citizens should share in the windfall"

Maybe we all get assigned a robot as our "work" and we get the robot's pay.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#26
post #9
post #2

The government should do precisely NOTHING. The jobs don't belong to workers, so the premise is entirely wrong to begin with.

This is correct. It's not the government's job to provide you a job, it's a personal responsibility to find one, if you want one. If you seek one, the government might provide some minor worker abuse and discrimination protections, but this in no way implies you have entitlement to a job or even income.

So you're saying that even though the government promised us that exalted "job creators" deserved tax cut to create jobs and increase wages; and even though those same corporations took those tax cuts and paid themselves and bought robots with it instead of meaningfully boosting wages (where is my $4k every worker was promised?); and even though most of that money stayed at the top; and even though we'll be paying off that money far into the future; and even though the government continues to erode worker's rights; and even though this system has created people who have more money than they could possibly spend in 10 million lifetimes while others are starving and homeless; you're telling me that despite all that, it's our own damn responsibility to find a job, and the government plays no role here in a future where the game was rigged the entire time so that capital owners could control everything?

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#27
And despite all of these concerns, the NYT frequently and consistently advocates for increases in low-skill immigrants, the very people who will the government will need to support when the 'robots come for [their] jobs'. The question is which of those 2 arguments are disingenuous?

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#28
post #10
post #7

The article talks about how globalization caused automation to replace millions of factory workers. Factory jobs, aren't the greatest, especially before the 1970s, and in many parts of the world, are still awful. Similarly, If we could replace every mining job with robots we'd remove a lot of human abuse in many parts of the world.

You’d also remove the way for lots of people to make a living. The unemployed only know that making a living in a lousy industry is better than not making any living at all.

The way things currently are, I agree. But I think it's a bit restrictive to limit yourself to that, when you are projecting decades into the future anyway.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#29
post #16
post #12

Do guaranteed minimum income. Give everybody a computer and lots of free time. If 0.001% of those people become hobbyist software developers it will pay for the program in a year. And we will probably get AI in two.

The total US tax revenue in 2017 was $3.422 trillion. If you split that evenly among 300 million people, each would get $11,000, which is half of the poverty line of $22,000. Even if you thought that little money was acceptable, to afford it you'd have to cut: 1. all military programs 2. all existing social security programs 3. all government infrastructure projects 4. all education programs 5. ...

Well, yes, it would require significantly increasing tax revenue to pay for it.

Re: If the Robots Come for Our Jobs, What Should the Government Do?

#30

The simplest solution is an automation tax which is revenue neutral. Any time automation moves in to an industry, the tax's revenues can be used to help transition those workers into other work, or give them at least an automation relief stipend. If we don't tax automation, what's to stop increasingly cheaper automation from replacing increasingly expensive first world workers? Especially when businesses are expected…

I am wondering, why wouldn’t this logic apply to outsourcing, too?
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