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Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

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Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be a whole new flavor for YC or other incubators - don't come to SF and fight to find housing... come to the new Coding Mall - offices are in the East Wing, apartment in the West Wing, demos and sales kiosks in the former Sears, VC offices in the former JC Penney, and everyone meets up in the food court (which is still running, btw, to keep everyone fed) for informal discussions.

I would move into such place.

Living in such place I would be plagued by zombie attack nightmares...

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#22

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

Small commuter apartments and/or mixed space. [1] https://youtu.be/HmL2l-bcuUQ [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mall-of-the-future-will-hav...

I would think zoning laws would get in the way there. You'd have to get the area re-zoned from commercial to residential. Which gets into whatever the local politics of that happen to be.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#23
Declining retail is one factor, but bad balance sheets are the other.

This type of development is fueled by favorable up-front tax and accounting treatments for development, but it requires constant growth for the companies to survive. When you get to the back-end of the 30 year loans, you're paying principal on a depreciated asset... the bag of tax tricks isn't enhancing profit anymore.

The fact that the operators are desperate is a good thing -- they'll be bankrupt soon and useful redevelopment of these massive properties can start taking place.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#24
post #14

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

I don't think the question is if the space can be used, but whether or not there are legitimate uses of the space that can also make up for ongoing maintenance costs of such large structures. I honestly don't think it can. I've seen them turned into office spaces, but it's really not an efficient use of space and the lack of sunlight/windows just makes it depressing. As far as demolishing goes, most malls really aren…

Rackspace purchased a mall a few years back and transformed it into an office space I've found pleasant during visits. Natural light in their space is mostly from above but there aren't exactly scenic surroundings anyways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/31/realestate/commercial/rac...

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#25

In the common conception of markets no seller has enough power to sit on their laurels, they must sell their product in order to survive. It seems wrong to me that in the real estate market liquidity would drop as prices drop. There needs to be a cost associated with holding real estate so that there is turnover in good times and bad times.

Owners of real estate already pay property taxes. Are you just proposing that those be increased? And you think that will make real estate more valuable? I'm missing something here...

>Are you just proposing that those be increased?

Sure, or an additional tax on unused or barely used real estate if we wanted to be targeted, but really I like the broad property tax.

>And you think that will make real estate more valuable?

No, I'm not trying to make real estate more valuable, actually I'm trying to make it less valuable by ensuring that the high levels of competition we see in booming real estate times carries over to the busts. If the costs are so low that people are just sitting on these properties and waiting for a magical moment when prices rise then obviously costs need to be increased to pressure these people to enter the market. Liquidity shouldn't drop when prices drop.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#26

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

It could be a whole new flavor for YC or other incubators - don't come to SF and fight to find housing... come to the new Coding Mall - offices are in the East Wing, apartment in the West Wing, demos and sales kiosks in the former Sears, VC offices in the former JC Penney, and everyone meets up in the food court (which is still running, btw, to keep everyone fed) for informal discussions.

Arcology!

I'm so glad we opted for the William Gibson distopian future. A Mad Max apolocalyptic hellscape would have been terrible for my skin.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#27
I've been watching a lot of videos recently on visiting abandoned or dying malls in America and was wondering if it could be possible to convert them into residential/communal areas?

They could be almost self-contained; with housing, shops, entertainment, etc all under one roof.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#28
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would move into such place.

Living in such place I would be plagued by zombie attack nightmares...

Not to worry. The real zombies are the people who used to shop there. Now they’re at home, clicking on the apps you’ll build for them.

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#29

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

>Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of space that will come up?

If they can't attract traditional retail tenants, some dead-mall owners have resorted to transforming them into community event centers, offices, or even apartments.[1] I don't know about the profitability of apartments but the community centers do not make enough money relative to the expenses of property taxes and upkeep. The mall is still dying.

The other option is for a new buyer to purchase the mall solely for the land value and demolish the buildings. Two malls in my area were demolished. One was replaced by a Wal-Mart supercenter with some adjacent strip malls sharing the same large parking lot. Another mall was razed and replaced by a Target store. The Wal-Mart and Target have drawn more shoppers than the dead malls they replaced. This is the free market telling us that the locations were commercially viable but the retail configuration (the indoor mall) was worthless.

[1] https://gizmodo.com/7-dead-shopping-malls-that-found-surpris...

Re: Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’ll accept

#30
post #18

I remember learning that in the 90s some companies had this useless asset: gas pipelines that spanned the country, but had dried up and were not being used. Other companies had a problem: how to acquire the rights to lay fiber from one end of the country to the other. Some very smart person realized you could lay the fiber in the old pipes. Question: what can be done with all that retail space? Is there a new use of…

When i was between the ages of 18-21 in the middle of the 07+ economic crisis i noticed all these "abandoned" car dealerships in my area... grocery stores, etc. I always thought a good repurposing of these buildings would've been: -Skate parks or other athletic venue (maybe a gym if the building was the right size?) -Clubs/Dancehalls -Concert Venues -Intermittent Rental for Parties/Weddings things of that nature (you…

One example of this: there's an animal shelter north of Atlanta that used to be a car dealership. http://bgarchitects.com/project/atlanta-humane-society/
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